>> ERIC: A COUNTERBUDGET PROPOSAL FROM SENATE REPUBLICANS, A TUSSLE ABOUT RESTORING THE GOVERNOR'S RESIDENCE, AND, OH, YEAH, SOME LEGAL NEWS OUT OF NEW YORK TOO.

ALL AMONG THE TOPICS FOR THE NEXT TEN MINUTES WITH THIS WEEK'S POLITICAL PANEL.

WE WELCOME MICHELLE BENSON TO THE GROUP.

THE REPUBLICAN IS A FORMER LAWMAKER AND CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR.

SHE'S JOINED BY REPUBLICAN PARTY ACTIVIST JEN DEJOURNETT.

DFLERS WITH US, FORMER LAWMAKER, NOW WASHINGTON COUNTY COMMISSIONER KARLA BIGHAM.

AND FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER AND ATTORNEY ABOU AMARA.

SENATOR BENSON, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT'S BEEN RAISED BY THE REPUBLICANS IN THE LAST WEEK OR SO IS THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE PURSUING AN AGENDA THAT THE VOTERS DIDN'T VOTE FOR.

YOU BUY THAT?

DID THE VOTERS NOT GET WHAT WAS GOING ON, GOING TO GO ON HERE?

>> WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT THE BUDGET, $7 BILLION IN TAX INCREASES, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY HAD THAT ON A ALK PIECE.

THEY'RE LOOKING AT $7 BILLION IN TAX INCREASES.

THOUSANDS OF EW TATE EMPLOYEES, 400 ALONE, FOR THE PAID FAMILY LEAVE BUREAUCRACY.

I DON'T HINK THAT WAS ON ANYBODY'S WALK CARD AS THEY WERE GOING OUT AND TALKING ABOUT THESE THINGS.

THINGS THAT WERE ON THE WALK CARDS, RETURNING THE OCIAL SECURITY -- STOP TAXING SOCIAL SECURITY INCOME.

THEY WALKED BACK ON THAT PROMISE.

EDUCATION FOR KIDS, YES, THEY'RE FUNDING IT, BUT ARE THEY RAISING THE BAR SO THAT OUR KIDS ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO LEARN TO READ?

AND, SO, NO, SOME OF THE THINGS WERE ON WALK CARDS.

BUT THEY'RE REALLY MISSING THE BOAT WITH THE VERAGE MINNESOTAN WHO IS SUFFERING UNDER INFLATION AND WOULD REALLY LIKE SOME DIRECT RELIEF FOR THEIR FAMILIES.

>> Eric: ABU?

>> WELL, FOR A DECADE, YOU HAD STALEMATE AT THE CAPITOL, YOU HAD SENATE REPUBLICANS BLOCKING MANY PROPOSALS THAT FOLKS WANTED TO GET DONE, PROPERTY TAX RELIEF, MAKING SURE WE WOULD SEND BACK SOME OF THE SURPLUS, MAKE SURE WE INVEST OF IN OUR SCHOOLS, IT WAS GRIDLOCK.

SO MINNESOTANS WERE TIRED OF IT, SO THEY GAVE CONTROL TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO GET THINGS DONE.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU'VE BEEN SEEING OVER THE PAST THREE MONTHS.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> OBVIOUSLY, IT WAS BY THE TINIEST OF MARGINS, BY HUNDREDS OF VOTES, NOT BY A LOT.

BUT WHAT'S NOT BEING EXPLAINED IS THAT A FINANCIAL TRAIN WRECK IS GOING TO BE RUN THROUGH EVEN LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE BILLS IS GOING TO COST $350,000 UPON IMPLEMENTATION, AND TRUST ME, NO ONE IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT KNOWS THAT BECAUSE I, AS A LOCAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL, JUST FOUND THAT OUT THE OTHER DAY WHEN I ASKED SOME DETAILED QUESTIONS ABOUT A BILL.

SO NOBODY TALKED ABOUT ALL OF THIS.

AND IT'S OT LIKE YOU WON BY A ZILLION MILLION VOTES, IT WAS JUST THE TINIEST LITTLE BIT, IF THE WIND HAD BLOWN A DIFFERENT WAY, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AT LEAST STATUS QUO.

>> I'VE NOTICED THAT THESE BILLS ARE PASSING WITH 1 VOTES.

SO, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SOME GOOD BIPARTISAN SUPPORT THAT'S COMING THROUGH THERE.

AND IT IS HISTORIC THAT THE TARGETS HAVE ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED.

I'M OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER WHEN SENATOR BENSON WAS STILL WAITING FOR HER TARGET A WEEK BEFORE ADJOURNMENT.

SO, IT'S FANTASTIC THAT THIS STUFF IS GETTING DONE.

IT HAS BEEN A LOT OF YEARS OF OBSTRUCTION.

I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THE TAX CUTS THAT MINNESOTANS ARE EXPECTING, DAY CARE, YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REPEALED.

I THINK THE PROPERTY TAX, RENTERS CREDIT, ALL OF THOSE CREDITS ARE GOING TO COME THROUGH THAT REALLY ARE MEANINGFUL FOR MINNESOTA FAMILIES.

>> Cathy: YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TAX CUTS, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF TAX INCREASES.

TAB FEES ARE GOING TO GO UP, SALES TAX, THE METRO AREA TRANSIT TAX.

WHAT AM MISSING HERE?

THE AMAZON DELIVERY.

75 CENTS ON EACH DELIVERY.

>> NOBODY TALKED ABOUT THAT IN THE LAST ELECTION.

I KNOW I LIVE IN THE SUBURBS, AND I KNOW, NO MINNESOTA MOM KNOWS THAT THEIR AMAZON DELIVERY, THEIR UBER EATS, ALL OF THAT IS GOING UP.

AND THERE IS NO BENEFIT TO THOSE UBER DRIVERS, I SAT IN A HEARING AND LISTENED TO THEM.

IT'S NOT LIKE THIS TAX INCREASE, YOU KNOW, IS GOING TO BENEFIT THEM IN A MATERIAL WAY.

THEY'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE ISSUES.

SO, ALL OF THAT, ALL OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID WAS OT DISCUSSED AT ALL.

>> Cathy: THOSE ARE SUBSTANTIAL FEE INCREASES.

SO WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK WE HAVEN'T KEPT UP WITH OUR TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM.

>> Cathy: THERE'S A GAS TAX.

>> WE HAVEN'T KEPT UP WITH OUR HOUSING, WE HAVEN'T KEPT UP WITH ALL OF THAT.

AND IT'S BEEN BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD LITERAL GRIDLOCK.

AND, SO, I WOULD SAY THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW THE PAST COUPLE YEARS HAVE GONE, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO PASS THESE PROJECTS WHEN THE GOAL WAS TO STARVE GOVERNMENT AND STARVE THE BEAST.

NOW THERE'S RESULTS COMING AND MINNESOTANS ARE GOING TO BENEFIT FROM A LOT OF THE INVESTMENTS IN EDUCATION AND IN HEALTHCARE AND DAY CARE.

>> BUT THE GRIDLOCK WAS JUST SAYING NO TO THINGS THAT DIDN'T WORK.

WE FUNDED TRANSPORTATION.

THERE WERE INCREASES IN SPENDING.

I MEAN, ROADS AND BRIDGES WERE ABSOLUTELY A PRIORITY FOR THE DECADE BEFORE THIS CAME.

NOW THERE'S A NEW FEE BEING ADDED THAT WAS NOT ON ANYBODY'S WALK CARD.

WE'RE ADDING MASSIVE BUREAUCRACIES, LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF STATE EMPLOYEES WHEN WE ALREADY HAVE ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE GOVERNMENTS IN THE COUNTRY.

>> MINNESOTANS UNDERSTAND, FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE GAS TAX, YOU HAVE A RECORD INCREASE IN ELECTRIC VEHICLES ON THE ROAD WHICH DON'T USE GAS.

I'M ONE F THOSE PEOPLE.

>> Cathy: YES.

>> SO THE GAS TAX ACTUALLY HAS DRIVEN DOWN THE AMOUNT OF REVENUE.

SO THE QUESTION IS, WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO FIND THE MONEY TO INVEST IN THE THINGS THAT WE NEED, LIKE ROADS AND BRIDGES?

>> BUT YOU CAN'T CAMPAIGN ON ONE THING AND THEN DO SOMETHING ELSE WHEN, YOU KNOW, SAY, WELL, WE'VE GOT A TRIFECTA NOW SO WE'RE GOING TO FRONT LOAD AND TAKE IT RIGHT OUT OF YOUR POCKETBOOK WHEN FAMILIES ARE SEEING RECORD INFLATION AND CAN'T AFFORD THEIR DAILY LIFE.

>> AND THE OTHER PIECE I WAS GOING TO SAY IS HAT, THAT'S TRUE, IN AREAS THEY'RE SEEING TAX INCREASES.

IN OTHER AREAS YOU'RE SEEING MASSIVE TAX CUTS OR REBATES.

>> WHAT CUTS?

>> THE NET EFFECTS OF THAT -- FOR EXAMPLE, DEMOCRATS HAVE PROPOSED A TAX CREDIT FOR FAMILIES FOR CHILD CARE.

EVERYBODY NOWS, CHILD ARE'S ONE OF THE FASTEST INCREASES IN MINNESOTA POCKETBOOKS.

IF YOU DRIVE DOWN THOSE COSTS, THE NET EFFECT OF THAT IS ACTUALLY A TAX DECREASE.

FOR MINNESOTANS.

>> BUT THAT DOESN'T OVERALL MAKE OUR ECONOMY MORE STABLE.

YES, IT HELPS THOSE FAMILIES.

KUDOS.

TO THE FAMILIES WHO WILL GET THAT.

BUT IF WE WANT OUR ECONOMY TO ACTUALLY CATCH UP, DID YOU KNOW THAT SINCE 2000, MINNESOTA'S ECONOMY HAS GROWN SLOWER THAN THE NATIONAL ECONOMY?

IF WE WANT TO CATCH UP, IF WE WANT OUR ECONOMY TO GROW SO THAT EVERYBODY WHO COMES HERE CAN BE LIFTED UP AND HAVE A GOOD-PAYING JOB, WE NEED TO LOOK LONG TERM, AND WITH A $17 BILLION URPLUS, ACTUALLY, $20 BILLION SURPLUS, WHY ARE WE GETTING $7 BILLION MORE IN TAX INCREASES?

AND SMALL OFFSETS TO SPECIFIC GROUPS.

>> Eric: WHY NO MANDATORY STATEWIDE RANK CHOICE VOTING?

APPARENTLY IT'S A STUDY.

>> Cathy: WOULD YOU LIKE O JUST RESPOND?

>> I DO.

>> Eric: GO AHEAD.

>> I WILL SAY THIS, THE REASON MAYBE WHY IT'S BEEN STAGNANT, SENATOR BENSON, IS BECAUSE THE TAX CUTS THAT HAVE HAD TO GO THROUGH MAYBE SHOULD BE MORE TARGETED TOWARDS WORKING FAMILIES AND THE ISSUES THAT ARE FACING THEM.

AGAIN, DAY CARE, MORTGAGE -- OR THE PROPERTY TAX RELIEF AND THE COUNTY PROGRAM AID, THE STUFF LIKE THAT THAT'S REALLY GOING TO HELP WITH PROPERTY TAXES.

INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, THE TAX BILLS THAT THE SENATE HAD PASSED THAT WERE REALLY GEARED TOWARDS THE HIGHER-INCOME FOLKS.

>> NO, ACTUALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE TAX BRACKETS, THEY CUT THE LOWEST TIER FIRST.

AND THEY -- >> THE FINAL ONES DID, THANKS TO GOVERNOR WALZ AND THE HOUSE.

>> NO, THE SENATE BILLS THAT -- PUT FORTE TAX CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD STARTING ITH THE LOWEST TIER FIRST.

EVERY SINGLE DOLLARS PASSES THROUGH THE OWEST TIER, THAT'S WHERE HE CUTS WERE, AND THERE WERE INCREASES IN COUNTY PROGRAM AID.

IN 2000 WASN'T THE YEAR THAT THOSE TAX CUTS WENT INTO PLACE.

>> Eric: OKAY.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT RANK CHOICE VOTING.

WHERE ARE YOU ON THAT, PARTY ACTIVIST?

>> WELL, I'M AN OPERATIVE ON VARIOUS CAMPAIGNS.

IF YOU FEEL -- FIRST OF ALL, RANK CHOICE VOTING IS VERY COMPLICATED FOR THE AVERAGE VOTER TO UNDERSTAND.

I MEAN, REALLY, AND RESULTS AREN'T NECESSARILY RECEIVED RIGHT AWAY.

AND ALSO THAT CREATES A LITTLE CONFUSION.

I THINK BEFORE YOU WOULD PUT THROUGH SUCH A MASSIVE LEGISLATION PIECE STATEWIDE AND SHOVED INTO AN OMNIBUS BILL, IT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF DISCUSSION TO SEE IF MINNESOTA REALLY WANTS TO GO THERE.

AND IT DOESN'T ALWAYS GIVE YOU, NECESSARILY, A CONSENSUS CHOICE BECAUSE, AGAIN, IT'S CONFUSING, PEOPLE JUST DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND IT, AND IT'S THE WRONG CHOICE FOR MINNESOTA AT THIS TIME.

>> Eric: APPARENTLY THEY'RE ALLOWING LOCALITIES TO DO IT, BUT THERE'S NO STATEWIDE MANDATE FOR IT.

>> YEAH.

AND THAT MAY MAKE SENSE IN TERMS OF WHAT'S VIABLE.

YOU NEED TO SCALE UP.

BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S ACTUALLY THAT COMPLICATED.

MINNESOTANS EVERY YEAR GO TO THE STATE FAIR, THEY RANK THEIR FAVORITE FOODS.

IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN THAT.

AND, SO, I THINK MINNESOTANS CAN GRAPPLE WITH, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, LET'S STREAMLINE OUR ELECTIONS, LET'S DO IT ALL AT ONCE AND LET'S GET IT DONE AND MOVE FORWARD.

>> SO I THINK THAT THE REFORMS THAT ARE BEING PASSED NOW AND ARE GOING TO BE TREMENDOUS, YOU KNOW, FOR THE STATE IN MAKING SURE THAT FUNDING IS AVAILABLE FOR JUDGES, FOR OPERATIONS, FOR EQUIPMENT, FOR A LOT OF THIS STUFF, THEY'RE UPDATING A LOT OF THE LAWS, AL MAIL-IN VOTING -- ALLOWING MAIL-IN VOTING, A LOT OF THAT IS FANTASTIC, LET'S DO THAT FIRST, THEN LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

I THINK IT'S FINE FOR THE LOCAL BUT THE WHOLE STATEWIDE THING IS I THINK IS PROBLEMATIC.

>> THE ELECTION BILL, THERE'S A TON OF STUFF IN THERE THAT IS NOT GETTING ATTENTION.

FOR EXAMPLE, THEY'RE EXPANDING EARLY VOTING OUT TO 18 DAYS.

THERE IS POP-UP POLLING LOCATIONS, WHICH AROUND THAT IS A LITTLE COMPLICATED ON HOW YOU CAN REQUEST ONE AND HOW IT GOES THROUGH THE PROCESS.

I ASKED SECRETARY OF STATE STEVE SIMON SOME CLARITY QUESTIONS ON THAT THE OTHER DAY.

THERE'S A LOT -- THERE'S DEMOCRACY DOLLARS, WHICH THAT IS A WHOLE 'NOTHER -- CHANGES OUR PUBLIC CONTRIBUTION REFUND PROGRAM.

THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF IN THERE THAT NEEDS A LOT MORE DAYLIGHT, AND THAT'S THE FRUSTRATION OF THIS SESSION, IS A LOT OF THIS STUFF IS HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES AND NOT BEING DISCUSSED.

>> AND TO FOLLOW UP ON JEN'S POINT, MARK DAYTON SAID HE WOULD NOT SIGN AN ELECTIONS BILL UNLESS IT HAD BIPARTISAN SUPPORT BECAUSE HE WANTED PEOPLE TO HAVE CONFIDENCE IN OUR ELECTIONS.

SO, RAMMING SOMETHING THROUGH THAT DOESN'T HAVE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT IS BRAND-NEW FOR DEMOCRATS AND CERTAINLY WASN'T ON ANYBODY'S WALK CARD.

>> Cathy: ANOTHER ISSUE, I'M WONDERING, IS CANNABIS LOSING STEAM?

LEGALIZED CANNABIS.

>> NO, I DON'T.

I ACTUALLY THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IS EALIZING THERE'S STILL MECHANICS THAT NEED TO BE WORKED OUT.

THIS IS THE PERFECT TYPE OF ISSUE THAT MAKES SENSE GOING INTO THE 2024 SESSION.

YOU'RE GOING TO DEAL WITH A NEW PRODUCT IN THE MARKET THAT IS GOING TO BE REGULATED, THAT NEEDS TO HAVE -- >> Cathy: NOT THIS SESSION?

>> NOT THIS SESSION.

I THINK GOING INTO 2024, IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE, YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF RUNWAY AND YOU'VE REALLY ONLY GOT A BONDING BILL, BESIDES THAT, YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF TIME TO INVEST IN WHAT THIS WILL LOOK LIKE.

>> I CONCUR.

I THINK IT WILL BE NEXT YEAR FOR THAT.

I THINK IT WILL BE NEXT YEAR FOR WAGERING.

IT'S A BUDGET YEAR.

AND THEY'VE DONE SOME INCREDIBLE THINGS AND HAD A LOT OF GREAT DISCUSSIONS ON A LOT OF THESE ISSUES THAT MINNESOTANS WANT TO SEE PASSED.

I THINK IT WILL END UP ON BOTH OF THOSE WILL BE NEXT YEAR.

>> Eric: TRUMP INDICTMENT, ANY FALLOUT FOR LOCAL POLITICS, MINNESOTA POLITICS?

>> I THINK DONALD TRUMP NEEDS TO GET BETTER LAWYERS.

HE'S IN A PRETTY BIG FIGHT NOW, AND IN AT LEAST THREE PLACES INDICTMENTS ARE COMING DOWN.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, REPUBLICANS NEED TO NOT TAKE THE BAIT AND FOCUS ON NOMINATING A CANDIDATE WHO CAN ACTUALLY BEAT WHOEVER THE DEMOCRATS PUT UP.

>> Eric: HE 30 SECONDS.

>> YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE IN THE RULE OF LAW AND YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

NANCY PELOSI SAID THAT HE HAD TO PROVE HIS INNOCENCE.

NO, THE OTHER SIDE HAS TO PROVE GUILTY.

GUILT.

THAT'S JUST OUR JUDICIAL PROCESS.

AND I THINK HE SHOULD GET SOME GREAT LAWYERS AND I'M SURE WE WILL HEAR MORE ABOUT THAT BECAUSE IT'S THE STORY THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO END.

>> Eric: WOULD HE WIN A STRAW POLL AMONG MINNESOTANS RIGHT NOW, REPUBLICANS?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT?

I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF GREAT CANDIDATES COMING DOWN THE PIKE AND I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM MANY OF THEM.

>> THE ANSWER IS YES.

>> AND NO ONE'S ABOVE THE LAW.

>> Eric: OKAY.

>> NO ONE'S ABOVE THE LAW.