- Coming up next on "Black Issues Forum" we'll get our round tables take on the nation's most recent hot headlines starting with Biden's State of the Union.

- Some Republicans want Medicare and Social Security Sunset.

I'm not saying it's a majority of them.

[audience booing] Let me give you, anybody who doubts it contact my office, I'll give you a copy, I'll give you a copy of the proposal.

- [Narrator] "Black Issues Forum" is a production of PBS North Carolina with support from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

Quality Public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[electronic beat] ♪ - Welcome to "Black Issues Forum", I'm Kenia Thompson.

We opened up the month with Biden's State of the Union address where he was met with some unfavorable responses.

- Instead of making the wealthy pay their fair share, some Republicans, some Republicans want Medicare and Social Security Sunset.

I'm not saying it's a majority of them.

[audience booing] Let me give you, anybody who doubts it, contact my office, I'll give you a copy, I'll give you a copy of the proposal.

That means Congress doesn't vote.

I'm glad to see you, no, I'll tell you, I enjoy conversion.

- Let's go straight to our panel so we can get right into the conversation.

Welcome to the show political analyst Steve Rao and PR and communication strategist, Pam Purifoy.

Starting out with you Steve, what do you think contributed to the boos that we heard throughout Biden's address?

- Well, first of all, I think it just validates how divided our political system is.

You know, author John Meacham has called ourselves more divided than we were at the time of the Civil War.

And clearly it's just, it's scary that we would boo a president giving the State of the Union.

The first thing I thought of is what people around the world are seeing when they see that.

This was a time, traditionally when the president comes in and in a bipartisan fashion leads the American people.

But I think what brought it on was the fact that he came out and called the Republicans out on extremism.

Particularly with Medicare, social security.

You know, I'm getting ready to watch the "Creed" movie in March, and he came out, like, jabbing like a boxer coming on the attack, but doing it in a way, selling himself more as a moderate, that, look, you know, we can do these things, we can, you know, have, you know, gun reform, we can do these things to help the American people.

So, I think that's what brought on the boos.

You know, and I think, but I think it's the new normal in politics and I think it sets a really bad example for our children and for the American people and for people in the world, other democracies that look up to America, you know, to say that, you know this could be happening in the oldest democracy in the world is really a sad day.

- Yeah, you know, and I think you brought up some good points some same similar things that I thought.

Like is this indicative to a new way of doing politics?

Pam, it seems like there's no respect, there's no decorum, and as Steve said, it's kind of a bad representation.

What are your thoughts?

- It's a horrible representation, horrible.

I could only think about, you know, who raised them, you know?

It's just the basic level of respect.

And I remember when President Obama gave a speech in the same manner and there was one congressman that said, "You lie", and remember there was this audible gasp in the chamber.

So, we've gone from that to a like a mob type of effect now.

And it's frightening, and it's very disheartening for our country, it really is.

And I totally, totally agree with Steve.

- Yeah, and that's a good point because I mean, you know, when Marjorie Taylor Green did it years ago she was accosted, but now it's just accepted.

So from now on, are we just gonna allow people to boo on either side?

It's just a sad day that it's accepted, it's the new normal.

- It is the new normal.

Unfortunately, it feels like everyone's taking that social platform of having a voice and being able to say what you wanna say to spaces that should have respect.

Steve, coming back to you, Biden addressed a lot, right?

From fentanyl production to Medicare.

Talk about what stood out to you most, Pam, I'll come to you for the same question, and what is it that we should be paying attention to?

- Well, first of all, I think this clearly was an indication that Joe Biden will be running again for president.

I think he came out feisty, he came out energetic.

I think he came out as the man he's been in his own career.

Someone to not to be underestimated, and who was survived the loss of a wife and two, one child and then went on to become a US Senator.

Now in the Oval Office, he just had a lot of energy.

And I think that what I observed in the speech was he mentioned Ukraine and China very briefly but focused more on the domestic policies of the country.

You know, social security, Medicare, healthcare, focusing on gun reform.

You know, he had success with the gun reform legislation last year, the bipartisan reform, but I think really focused in on what we could be doing at home.

And then there was also, he didn't really talk about the CHIPS Act, but he talked about reinvesting in American manufacturing, reinvesting in American jobs.

So I think these were all things that the president was emphasizing on.

Look, you know, we got the ARP plan through, we got the Inflation Reduction Act through.

Now I wanna show the American people that these investments are creating jobs and opportunities.

So, that's what I took away from it.

I think definitely he's the front runner going into the president dispel all the rumors he isn't running again, he is running for president.

And he will be facing either, in my opinion, Donald Trump or DeSantis.

But you've gotta, like Joe Biden's chances if the economy gets a little bit better, but it's still gonna be a fight.

- Yeah.

Yeah, Pam, I wanna come to you, but I wanna play off of something Steve said.

Biden did look spry, he looked good, you know, and the conversation around his mental stability.

So I kind of want you to talk a little bit about that as well.

- Listen, I have an 86 year old mother who could run circles around all three of us, okay?

She is extremely active, political activist in Detroit, Michigan, all of that.

So, I don't, you know, I'm very careful about ageism because you cannot say when a person's time is up, so to speak.

And I think that President Biden, listen, he gave them.

He said, well, after all the booze and what have you, he said, well, I'm so glad to see that we all agree.

So, he turned it on them, so...

He was very sharp.

He was with it.

I thought that he too should not be underestimated.

Definitely should not be.

- Yeah, Steve, did you wanna mention something there?

I hear you chiming in.

- No, no.

I mean, I think he was in it to win it, and I think he's serving his country, and I think that he's not to be underestimated.

And, I think that a lot of it's gonna be about the economy inflation.

But, I think that if the states are sitting on about $250 billion worth of infrastructure money, so that money starts going to work, and we start seeing the impact of the Chips Act, we could actually see an uptick in economic growth.

Unemployment is low.

So, I think that's the key.

We have to focus in on inflation prices, but I think he's in a good position.

I think it surprised a lot of people, including his own party, that he would not run again.

And, I think it's good that he came out early and claimed it to dispel any rumors that I am running for reelection.

I'm gonna be the oldest president in history to win reelection and the oldest president to leave, but he's got 98 year old Jimmy Carter.

And, we also pray for President Carter's family.

- Indeed, yes, for sure.

- Absolutely, indeed.

- Thank you for bringing that up.

Roe v. Wade was also mentioned at the address.

It was a hot topic last year.

It has died down a bit in daily news, but there's still a concern for many.

Biden's calling for abortion rights protection.

Steve, what does that mean and how do you see this progressing?

- Well, I think what the president's really trying to do first of all is codify Roe v. Wade through congressional action.

Now, he doesn't have the votes, because of the filibuster, but he said that, at the end of last year, that was one of his top priorities.

So, the idea would be that making it law in Congress and providing the ability to get an abortion, because Roe v. Wade, as we've...

I've said on this show before, was overturning a decision that had been in place for half a century, taking the right to choose away from women, which was our country lived by abiding by the 14th Amendment due process clause.

So, that's the first thing.

The second thing, the president has issued executive orders in the past that would enable a woman to cross borders and get an abortion, not allowing universities to discriminate based on pregnancy.

So, that's what the president means, because right now, the only way...

These states are making it illegal.

And, we even know in North Carolina, our legislature is looking at reducing the amount of time, right?

From I think 20 weeks to 13 weeks.

So, that's what the president's talking about, federal action, congressional action, to fight the... What the court has done, which is making it illegal to get an abortion in many states.

- Indeed, indeed.

It's been a year since the Russian invasion in the Ukraine, and while much hasn't changed, there has been a lot of talk about the amount of money the United States has been approved to allocate to provide aid with nearly $113 billion.

Steve, coming to you, Biden's approval rating was at 43% right before his address.

Do you think it's because people haven't really appreciated the lack of support and aid for our own issues here in this country, like the Ohio derailment, chemical poisoning, gun control, policing, training, teacher pay, all the issues that we have here?

- I understand that argument, and I do think it is a factor in affecting his poll numbers.

I mean, but I do believe that it's critically important to understand how detrimental the situation is Ukraine.

The first thing I want to say to anyone watching the show is we pray for Ukraine, and the people of Ukraine, and the people of Ukraine, many 21,000 Ukrainians live in North Carolina.

And, so we pray for them as their country has been sabotaged by a dictator.

And, I think at the end of the day, if Ukraine is successful, I mean, if Russia is successful, it's gonna encourage other countries like China to invade Taiwan, right?

And, so I think it's really important that we continue to provide the aid that we're providing, because a victorious Ukraine will forever weaken Russia and send a message that you cannot violate the international rule systems that's been in place since World War II and just invade another independent nation.

Because, if they're able to do that, then many, many other countries around the world we're seeing dictatorship and authoritarian in rise.

So, to answer your question, I think it's a balance.

I mean, I really wish we had more money to do a lot of the things you mentioned, but I think that I want to commend the president and the administration for uniting Europe, Europe's the most united it's been since World War II, having a united NATO to say, we're not accepting this and we're gonna help Ukraine win.

- Pam, I'd love to hear your thoughts on allocation of money, things that we have to work on here, versus aiding and contributing to Ukraine.

- Well, I do agree with Steve about, we do pray for the people of Ukraine, however we do have a number of problems here in the United States.

My biggest concern is with, can we just get the George Floyd Policing Act passed, please?

That is a tremendous problem.

Also, our education system, I think that we are really not doing well with education.

And, certainly, the pandemic did not help that cause at all.

'Cause, we know that a lot of the students are behind, those particularly who would traditionally be behind are even further behind.

And, so we... And, then we have the problem of the gun violence in schools, and the lack of pay for educators, that it doesn't make it terribly attractive for people to teach.

So, it's... We really... We do have some extremely important competing issues on the... On our plate.

And that need to be addressed.

- Yeah.

- Immediately.

- Immediately, yes.

- Immediately.

- They are urgent, very urgent.

For those who question the United States level of investment, Steve, you've kind of already talked about this.

How would you outline the importance of our involvement, but also the degree of the US involvement, especially compared to our domestic commitments?

Speak a little more.

- It's a significant involvement.

I mean, today I think Secretary Blinken and Jake Sullivan, our National Security advisor, announcing another 2 billion in aid, so I think it's important to understand where this money is going.

So, the money is going to help them buy more HIMARS, weapon systems, which have been very successful helping them, assist them in missile technology, all kinds of new technologies.

I mean, over 30,000 civilians have died on the ground in Ukraine, probably more than that.

When you look at the 60 minute segment they did on Bucha, it just brought tears to my eyes, seeing bodies, just carcasses there of mothers and daughters and fathers and children, little children dead on the street.

So the money is going to make sure that we can address that by giving their military the resources they need.

In terms of how we balance it, I think the only way of looking at it is perhaps additional assistance from other European nations that might be able to contribute a little bit more, so the US isn't bearing all of the brunt.

I know some of that is going on, but I think that it's a hard decision.

I agree with Pam, that I really wish I could spend another 3 billion 4 billion, 5 billion even more on all these other problems.

But I believe if we abandon the Ukraine we're gonna end up enabling Vladimir Putin to be successful.

And we're gonna completely, you know, have a havoc in our international system.

If we allowed Hitler do what he did in World War II, where would we be today, if we had said it's not our problem?

So anyway, I think that's, that's where I stand on it.

- Yeah, good points.

Pam, I wanna come to you when we talk about domestic support, more specifically support that we need right here in North Carolina, you know, we'll bring in this topic just, just quickly.

We had a recent death by police taser Darrell Williams.

Right?

When we talk about the support that we need for training our own police for, like infrastructure, for school systems, talk about what we need in the black community and where those dollars could essentially go to.

- They, you know, they say that when the black community, when other communities have a cold and we have a flu or pneumonia, everything is further exacerbated.

So the schools, I'm afraid, I don't disagree with charter schools, but I have the sense that when you're dividing, when they are also are able to get the tax dollars for the, that the public schools get, it takes away, you're stretching the dollars.

And there's less for those public schools that maybe some of those children can't get to the charter school.

I don't know.

Or maybe they're not, it's not equitably distributed, I'm not sure.

But we, the policing situation is such a multifaceted situation.

It's not just the training.

It's almost like what happens to a younger person or any person that wears a gun.

And the ego or the sense of power and control, those types of emotions, how are they controlled or whatever?

Because I just don't understand, I don't know exactly why Darrell Williams was stopped in the first place.

I never, I never heard that conversation and perhaps you could tell me, but I never know why he was stopped in the first place.

So we, we really have to, like I said, everything that our, all of our society needs the African American community needs even more.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

Steve, I'd love your take.

I know you've got your finger on the pulse to our financial capacities within the state.

Do we have the financial stability that we need to make some of these changes here locally?

- Well, I think, I like Pam's points.

I mean, I think we do have resources available that we can invest from the state level, even federal money that can go into more implicit bias training.

You know, one thing I often say is that racial bias is like a medical disease that cannot be diagnosed but we know it exists.

And so even in my home jurisdiction of Mooresville, where I serve, serve, you know, we've had a lot of training like bias training when they hire police officers, actual facilitated discussions and training.

So yeah, I think the money is there and it should be coming from the state to go invest in the local police departments and the state highway patrol for more of this training.

I think we need to catch it early, because any police officer that goes in there whether they think they're powerful, whether they have you know, the, this bias against black men and women, I think of black parents every day of the conversation that they have to have with their children when they get in a car, if they got in a speeding violation or a traffic infarction are they gonna be tasered and shot?

It's very, very scary.

And this shouldn't be happening in our country today.

- Yeah.

- I agree.

The 2024 presidential ballot is growing.

The most recent addition, former South Carolina Republican governor, Nikki Haley who also served as US Ambassador to the United States under Trump.

Some, however, are raising a brow at Haley for her inconsistencies, most controversial of them all is her stance on the confederate flag.

In 2010 interview, she was questioned about her views on the flag and taking it down.

And Haley stated quote, "I will work to talk to them about the work we're doing and to talk to them about the heritage and how it is not something that is racist."

End quote.

In a more recent interview, though, she said the exact opposite.

- This is something that is a tradition that people feel proud of and let them know that we want their business in this state.

And that the flag where it is, was a compromise of all people that everybody should accept as part of South Carolina.

The biggest reason that I asked for that flag to come down was I could not look my children in the face and justify it standing there.

- Pam, her change of position was after nine people were fatally shot at a historically black church in Charleston in 2015, is when again, she changed her positioning.

After the shooting, she called for the removal of the Confederate flag from the grounds of the State House.

What are your thoughts on Haley and her statements about the Confederate confederate flag then and now?

- Well, clearly I believe that she is a flip flopper.

It's unfortunate that it took the Emmanuel nine to lose their lives before the Confederate flag was taken down.

The Dylan Roof's commentary afterwards as to why he did this to start a racial war and how he was encouraged to do so on, via the internet and what have you.

Just, I guess the outcry from the people is what made her change her mind.

But, you know, we could have done this so much sooner because there were plenty of people that were petitioning her and lawmakers to take it down.

What was this purpose?

So, you know, I think that she has a very interesting complicated history with race and, it is, already in her presidential bid, Ann Coulter, the conservative political pundit has said some very racially charged things about her, saying that she should go back to her own country.

And we all know that Haley was, Nikki Haley was born here in South Carolina to immigrant parents from Punjab.

And so the, she say, they're doing these little things to her to I think diminish or to diminish her and to not make her seem like a viable candidate in their eyes.

- Yeah.

Steve, wanna come to you.

You know, some of what Pam has said about her flip flopping, these inconsistencies.

Are they red flags and are they indicative to the characteristic of who Nikki Haley is, or is she simply evolving?

- Well, I think, first of all as a son of immigrants from India, I do want to tell the Haley family that, you know, I'm proud of their family.

I never in my lifetime thought an Indian American immigrant a son, a daughter of immigrants, would become a candidate for the president of the United States, having been a governor to an ambassador.

I think she's not to be underestimated, I personally believe she's going for the vice presidency.

But I have been concerned of just the inconsistencies that she has had and been a flip flopper for a number of years.

I mean, not only the Confederate flag, you know, in 2016 she called out Donald Trump for being a white supremacist.

Then when he won, she said that she looked forward to a great America ahead.

But after the insurrection, she called him out on that.

But then she said we were being too hard on him.

She condemned him when the Me Too movement came out, when 18 women accused the president of sexual harassment and inappropriate behavior, she called him out on that and then she backed away.

But the most important thing is, in her speech, she talked about the foreign policy and she made America seem like such a dark place and such an unsafe place to live and a bad place in the world with everything going on.

But she was in the administration that basically was a president who said Putin was a good guy.

Kim Jong-un was our friend, and supported breaking down NATO and an isolationist foreign policy.

So I think that, that she's completely inconsistent and I don't know whether it's because she's just trying to win, like any politician.

But I hope that answers your question.

But yeah, inconsistencies all over the board and I would be concerned of any president that would be in the Oval Office that couldn't stand by their convictions of what they truly believe.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

Pam, let's come to you.

You know, Haley, DeSantis, a few others, they claim that they're creating a new Republican party.

What are your thoughts on that?

- Oh, my.

A new Republican party.

- Yeah.

- DeSantis, well, I guess he has, he has, he is changing things quite a bit.

Instituting book bans and all these racial tropes and talk and woke speech and this and that.

I mean, I don't wanna live in an authoritarian America.

I love democracy and very proud that we are a democracy.

And I think that he wants to change that.

And unfortunately, there are other politicians that are starting to sound more like him.

As far as Nikki goes, I, the main thing that I hear her say is, we've gotta start this, a new generation of leadership.

And she keeps using the language of who's old and that type of thing.

And that has nothing to do with it.

It's who's, who wants to do what's right for the people.

And I feel that she's very opportunistic.

Whichever way the wind is blowing and it looks, like it's going to the right way where she could win, that's where she'll go.

And that's the reason for her flip flopping constantly that we don't really know where she is.

I do think that eventually people will look upon her, whoever it is, will be the candidate of choice of the Republican Party.

I do think, like Steve, that she probably will be looked at as a Vice President candidate.

- We'll see what happens.

Only time we'll tell.

But Steve Rao, Pam Purifoy.

thank you so much for being here with us on the show.

Thank you for your contributions and for your insight.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

Have a wonderful weekend.

- You as well.

And we invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag black issues forum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum and on the PBS video app.

Thank you for watching.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

[upbeat music] ♪ ♪ - [Narrator] Black Issues Forum is a production of PBS North Carolina with support from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

Quality public Television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.