GAUTAM: TONIGHT ON GREATER BOSTON, CONGRESSMAN SETH MOULTON JOINS ME ON THE LATEST CHARGES AGAINST DONALD TRUMP AND WHY BOB MENENDEZ IS BEING CALLED ON TO RESIGN.

LATER, DREW GILPIN FAUST JOINS ME ON HER NEW MEMOIR, NECESSARY TROUBLE.

IT IS SHAPING UP TO BE A VERY HECTIC WEEK FOR NATIONAL POLITICS.

CONGRESS IS HURTLING TOWARDS THE DEADLINE TO EITHER FUND THE GOVERNMENT OR SHUT IT DOWN WITH NO DEAL INSIGHT.

THERE IS THE SECOND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE.

TOP CANDIDATES WILL GO HEAD-TO-HEAD WITHOUT DONALD TRUMP, WHO STARTED HIS WEEK LAUNCHING BASELESS ACCUSATIONS AGAINST MARK MILLEY AND HINTED AT THE IDEA OF HIS EXECUTION.

AND HE IS ALREADY DEALING WITH MORE LEGAL TROUBLE.

TRUMP AND HIS FAMILY HAVE BEEN RULED TO BE LIABLE FOR YEARS AND YEARS OF FRAUD AND CANCELED THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION BUSINESS LICENSE.

LET'’S START WITH THE LEGAL TROUBLES OF BOB MENENDEZ.

AS FELLOW DEMOCRATS URGE HIM TO RESIGN OVER CORRUPTION CHARGES.

MY GUEST IS ONE OF THOSE DEMOCRATS, CONGRESSMAN SETH MOULTON OF SALEM.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

OUR VIEWERS SHOULD KNOW THAT THE CONGRESSMAN AND I WERE COLLEGE CLASSMATES AND I SUPPORTED HIS FIRST CAMPAIGN MANY YEARS AGO.

CONGRESSMAN, WHY DID YOU CALL FOR SENATOR MENENDEZ TO RESIGN?

REP. MOULTON: IT IS PLAINLY OBVIOUS.

THE ALLEGATIONS ARE DEEPLY SERIOUS.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE HEARD ALLEGATIONS LIKE THIS ABOUT SENATOR MENENDEZ.

WE NEED TO HAVE HIGHER STANDARDS OF ETHICS AND DECENCY IN THE CONGRESS.

PEOPLE SHOULD LOOK UP TO THEIR REPRESENTATIVES TO BE MODELS OF FOLLOWING THE HIGHEST ETHICAL STANDARDS AND I THINK THAT IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE HERE.

GAUTAM: WHEN I WENT THROUGH THE ACCUSATIONS, WHAT CONCERNS ME IS UNDER THE STANDARD THE SUPREME COURT INTRODUCED WHERE THEY SAY GIVING A SITTING GOVERNOR AND GETTING FAVORS FROM HIM IS NOT BRIBERY, IT IS UNCLEAR THAT SENATOR MENENDEZ WILL BE CONVICTED, WHICH MAKES ME WONDER, IS IT TIME FOR THE CONGRESS AND SENATE TO STEP IN AND PASS NEW ETHICS LAWS, WHICH THEY HAVE NOT DONE?

REP. MOULTON: WE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE TIGHTENING ETHICS RULES AROUND THE SUPREME COURT, NO QUESTION THAT BOTH -- MOST AMERICANS DO NOT TRUST THE SUPREME COURT AS THEY USED TO BECAUSE OF THE GROSS ETHICAL VIOLATIONS.

GAUTAM: WHAT ABOUT THE ETHICS LAWS THAT WOULD APPLY TO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS?

REP. MOULTON: I AM NOT A LEGAL SCHOLAR SO I DO NOT KNOW IF GIVING A ROLEX TO A SENATOR QUALIFIES AS BRIBERY, BUT I WOULD NOT DO IT AND I THINK MOST AMERICANS WOULD AGREE WITH ME.

GAUTAM: ONE STRIKING THING ABOUT THE DYNAMICS IS AROUND 30 DEMOCRATIC SENATORS HAVE DECLARED MENENDEZ SHOULD RESIGN, BUT HIS REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES ARE DOING THE OPPOSITE HERE IN MARCO RUBIO SAID THE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST HIM ARE NASTY AND THE EVIDENCE OFFERED DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN AWAY BUT IN AMERICA GUILT IS DECIDED BY A JURY, NOT POLITICIANS.

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH REPUBLICANS DEMOCRATIC -- REPUBLICANS DEFENDING A DEMOCRATIC SENATOR AND DEMOCRATS TELLING HIM TO GO?

REP. MOULTON: I AM NOT DOING A POLITICAL CALCULATION HERE AT ALL.

I LOOKED AT THE ALLEGATIONS AND SAID THIS DOES NOT MEET THE EXPECTED STANDARD OF A U.S.

SENATOR SO HE SHOULD STEP DOWN.

FOR ME IT IS PRETTY BLACK-AND-WHITE LIKE THAT.

YES, WE HAVE A CRIMINAL STATUTE AND A LONG-HELD TRADITION OF JUSTICE WHERE YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

WHAT MATTERS FOR THE COURT OF LAW, BUT THERE IS ALSO THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION AND SENATOR MENENDEZ HAS SERVED NEW JERSEY FOR A LONG TIME AND HAS HAD HIS UPS AND DOWNS, BUT I THINK IT IS PRETTY HARD TO SAY UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT NEW JERSEY WOULD NOT BE BETTER OFF WITH A DIFFERENT U.S.

SENATOR AND THAT THE COUNTRY WOULD NOT BE BETTER OFF WITH SOMEONE WHO HAD HIGHER ETHICAL STANDARDS.

I ALSO NOTE A COLLEAGUE OF MINE, ANDY KIM, WHO I HELP TO GET ELECTED AS A NEW GENERATION OF SERVICE ORIENTED LEADERS IN THE HOUSE, HAS ALREADY ANNOUNCED HE WANTS TO RUN FOR THE SEAT AND WHEN YOU COMPARE THEIR RECORDS AND ETHICAL STANDARDS, I DO NOT THINK THERE IS ANY COMPARISON.

GAUTAM: IS THERE ANYTHING THE PARTY CAN DO TO FORCE MENENDEZ TO STEP DOWN?

REP. MOULTON: MY UNDERSTANDING IS IT IS LIMITED TO STATEMENTS.

AGAIN, I AM NOT A LEGAL SCHOLAR.

I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE PARTICULAR RULES ARE IN NEW JERSEY, BUT WHAT I HOPE IS THAT SENATOR MENENDEZ WILL DO THE RIGHT THING, SAVE THE CONSTITUENTS HE REPRESENTS THE PAIN AND ARDUOUS MESS OF GOING THROUGH A TRIAL WHERE HONESTLY I DO NOT THINK HE SERVED AS A CONSTITUENTS THAT WELL.

I KNOW HOW HARD I WORK TO MEET THE NEEDS OF MY CONSTITUENTS AND I HAVE TO DO THAT WITHOUT HAVING TO DEAL WITH LEGAL TROUBLES HE HAS ENCOUNTERED SO I JUST DO NOT THINK IT IS THE RIGHT THING FOR HIM TO CONTINUE IN THIS POSITION AND OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE A LOT OF DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE JOINED ME IN THE CALL FOR HIM TO RESIGN.

GAUTAM: THAT IS NOT ALL.

WE ALSO HAVE THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES, THE OVERWHELMING FAVORITE TO BE THE NEXT REPUBLICAN NOMINEE, CALLING FOR THE EXECUTION OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS.

I AM SURE YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT.

REP. MOULTON: THE FORMER CHAIRMAN JUST UP AND DOWN, THIS IS NOT A BANANA REPUBLIC.

WE ARE A COUNTRY THAT STANDS UP FOR BASIC VALUES AND PRINCIPLES OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND JUSTICE AND EVERYTHING ELSE, ONE OF WHICH IS WE RESPECT THE SERVICE OF THE MEMBERS OF OUR MILITARY WHEN THEY STAND UP FOR OUR NATIONAL SECURITY.

WE DO NOT ATTACK THEM BECAUSE WE DO NOT AGREE WITH THEIR POLITICS OR PERCEIVED POLITICS.

IN THIS CASE, OF COURSE, TRUMP IS ATTACKING CHAIRMAN MILLIE BECAUSE MILLIE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE NATIONAL SECURITY OF THE U.S.

WHEN DONALD TRUMP WAS INCITING AN INSURRECTION.

I WOULD BE PRETTY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, TO.

BUT THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE HERE IS, IN TALKING ABOUT SENATOR TURBERVILLE IN ALABAMA WHO HAS BEEN HOLDING UP HUNDREDS OF NOMINATIONS AND PROMOTIONS OF MILITARY LEADERS AND IN FACT DECIMATED A GENERATION OF OFFICERS AS A RESULT, IN THE CONTEXT OF THAT, WE HAVE A REMARKABLE SITUATION IN THE UNITED STATES TODAY WHERE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS BECOME A DANGER TO OUR NATIONAL SECURITY.

NOW WE HAVE FURTHER EVIDENCE OF THIS BECAUSE THE PERSON WHO IS OVERWHELMINGLY LEADING THE RACE TO BE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT NEXT YEAR IS SAYING WE SHOULD EXECUTE THE FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS DANGEROUS FOR NATIONAL SECURITY RIGHT NOW, AND THAT IS A PROBLEM FOR ALL OF US.

GAUTAM: WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT US AS A COUNTRY, THIS STATEMENT BY THE FORMER PRESIDENT?

IT BARELY MADE THE NEWS.

REP. MOULTON: IT SAYS TWO THINGS.

FIRST OF ALL, THAT WE HAVE JUST BECOME USED TO HIS BEHAVIOR.

AND THAT IS PRETTY SAD.

IT IS SAD THAT OUR STANDARDS HAVE SUNK SO LOW THAT A FORMER PRESIDENT CAN SAY THINGS LIKE THIS AND AS YOU SAID, IT BARELY MAKES THE NEWS, NOT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGED.

THE OTHER PART OF IT IS THAT THIS IS DANGEROUS FOR OUR NATIONAL SECURITY, THESE KINDS OF STATEMENTS.

THERE MAY BE A PART WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRYING NOT TO TRUMPET UP TOO MUCH, PARDON THE PUN, AND MAKE A BIG DEAL OF THIS, BECAUSE WHEN WE ARE TRYING TO DETER THE THREAT OF CHINA IN THE PACIFIC, HELP UKRAINE WIN A WAR AGAINST THE ILLEGAL INVASION BY WERE CRIMINAL VLADIMIR PUTIN, WE HAVE A LOT OF NATIONAL SECURITY CONCERNS AROUND THE WORLD, WE NEED TO HAVE OUR DOMESTIC HOUSE IN ORDER AND THE FACT THAT SOMEONE WHO INCITED AN INSURRECTION IS NOW RUNNING AGAIN FOR PRESIDENT, SOMETHING WE HAVE NEVER HAD HAPPENED BEFORE, THAT SHOULD REALLY GIVE AMERICANS PAUSE.

IT IS A THREAT TO OUR NATIONAL SECURITY.

GAUTAM: IT IS NOT JUST DONALD TRUMP.

YOUR COLLEAGUE PAUL GOSS ARE PUT OUT A MESSAGE IN HIS NEWSLETTER IN WHICH HE SAID, AND A BETTER SOCIETY, QUISLINGS LIKE GENERAL MILLEY WOULD BE HUNG.

HE HAD ONE BOSS, PRESIDENT TRUMP, AND INSTEAD HE WAS SECRETLY MEETING WITH NANCY PELOSI AND COORDINATE WITH HER TO HURT TRUMP.

I WANT TO PRAISE HIM FOR USING THE WORD QUISLING, WHICH IS OBSCURE.

YOUR COLLEAGUE IS USING THIS KIND OF RHETORIC RIGHT NOW THROUGH TAXPAYER-FUNDED CHANNELS.

DO YOU EVER RUN INTO HIM ON THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE?

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO SAY TO HIM THE NEXT TIME YOU DO?

REP. MOULTON: I DON'’T TALK TO HIM.

WHEN I FIRST RAN FOR OFFICE, I AM SURE YOU REMEMBER THIS, I TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE NEED TO HAVE MORE BIPARTISANSHIP, WE NEED TO GET THINGS DONE BY WORKING ACROSS THE AISLE, IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE LASTING CHANGE.

AND I THINK AMERICANS WANT THAT.

THEY ARE TIRED OF THE DIVISION IN OUR COUNTRY.

I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO GREAT THINGS BY WORKING ACROSS THE AISLE, LIKE PASSING THE HOTLINE I CO-AUTHORED WITH A REPUBLICAN FROM UTAH, CHRIS STEWART.

WHEN I SAID I WANT TO DO MORE BIPARTISAN STUFF, SOME PEOPLE SAID HOW DO YOU WORK WITH SOMEONE LIKE TED CRUZ?

OR PAUL GOSAR?

THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE.

I DON'’T.

I DON'’T WORK WITH REPUBLICANS LIKE THAT.

I WORK WITH REPUBLICANS LIKE CHRIS STEWART WHO ARE REASONABLE, THOUGHTFUL, AND PUT THE COUNTRY FIRST.

EVEN THOUGH WE DISAGREE ON A LOT OF POLICIES I AM ABLE TO WORK WITH HIM BECAUSE HE IS SOMEONE I CAN ACTUALLY TRUST.

YOU CANNOT TRUST PAUL GOSAR OR MATT GAETZ OR LAUREN BOEBERT, THESE CHARACTERS WHO GET A LOT OF ATTENTION ON TV WHO ARE REALLY DETRIMENTAL TO OUR COUNTRY.

AND SO I DO NOT WORK WITH THEM, I DO NOT TALK TO THEM, I TRIED TO GET THINGS DONE WITH REPUBLICANS WHO CAN ACTUALLY MAKE A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE IN OUR COUNTRY.

GAUTAM: THE QUESTION I WANT TO ASK YOU, THERE ARE PLENTY OF REPUBLICANS YOU WANT TO WORK WITH BUT THEY ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH THESE PEOPLE.

REP. MOULTON: SOME OF THEM ARE, SOME OF THEM ARE NOT.

RIGHT NOW WE ARE LUNGING TOWARD A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN AND THE REALITY IS THAT THE REASON WE ARE GOING INTO A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS BECAUSE THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE HAS BECOME BEHOLDEN, SUBSERVIENT, TO A SMALL GROUP OF DANGEROUS EXTREMISTS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

IF INSTEAD SPEAKER MCCARTHY WOULD TAKE THE BILL THAT HAS ALREADY PASSED THE SENATE WITH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS JOINING TOGETHER TO PUT TOGETHER A PACKAGE TO GET THE HONEST VOTE IN THE HOUSE, HE WOULD FIND A LOT OF REPUBLICANS, LIKE THE ONES I WANT TO WORK WITH, JOINING TOGETHER WITH DEMOCRATS TO SUBVERT THE SHUTDOWN, TO MOVE US FORWARD, AND TO HELP CONTINUE TAKING ON THE CHALLENGES THAT FACE OUR COUNTRY, OF WHICH THERE ARE A LOT TODAY.

THE REALITY IS THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE ARE HURLING US TOWARDS A SHUTDOWN, BUT MOST REPUBLICANS DON'’T WANT THAT.

MOST REPUBLICANS WOULD LIKE TO JOIN TOGETHER WITH DEMOCRATIC -- WITH DEMOCRATS TO GET US OUT OF THIS.

THE DEMOCRATS JOINED TOGETHER WITH MODERATE REASONABLE REPUBLICANS TO GET US OUT OF THAT.

BUT THE SPEAKER DOESN'’T WANT TO, HE IS SO SCARED FOR HIS OWN HIDE, SCARED OF THE EXTREMISTS, HE DOES NOT WANT TO PUT A COMPROMISED BILL ON THE FLOOR.

GAUTAM: I THINK WE WILL LEAVE IT THERE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CONGRESSMAN.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

LONG BEFORE SHE BECAME THE FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT OF HARVARD, DREW GILPIN FAUST GREW UP IN A SUBURBAN FAMILY IN THE 1950'’S SOUTH WEARE REFERENCE CONFEDERACY WAS UNQUESTIONED ASSUMPTION OF EVERYDAY LIFE BUT SHE DID NOT LET HER SURROUNDINGS DEFINE HER.

AT NINE YEARS OLD SHE WROTE TO PRESIDENT DWIGHT EISENHOWER, URGING HIM TO INTEGRATE SCHOOLS.

THAT LETTER IS IN THE PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY.

NOW SHE STUDIES THE HISTORY OF THE INJUSTICES SHE SAW GROWING UP.

SHE DESCRIBES THAT STRUGGLE IN HER NEW MEMOIR, "“NECESSARY TROUBLE: GROWING UP MIDCENTURY."

DREW GILPIN FAUST JOINS ME NOW.

DREW, IT IS A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU WITH US TODAY.

DR. FAUST: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

GAUTAM: YOUR MEMOIR MADE THAT CENTRALITY OF RACIAL ASSUMPTIONS IN EVERYDAY LIFE IN THE ERA IN WHICH YOU GREW UP VISCERAL TO ME IN A WAY FEW OTHER THINGS I HAVE READ HAVE.

DR. FAUST: THAT IS WHAT I HAD HOPED TO DO BY COMBINING A MEMOIR WITH HISTORICAL CONTEXT, SO THANK YOU.

GAUTAM: WHAT IS IT THAT MADE YOU , ALMOST ALL THE CONTEMPORARIES YOU TALK ABOUT, REBEL?

DR. FAUST: I AM NOT SURE.

OBVIOUSLY I HAVE SPECULATED IN THE BOOK.

I THINK ONE PART OF IT WAS GROWING UP WITH THREE BROTHERS AND FEELING LIKE THEY WERE ALLOWED ALL KINDS OF PRIVILEGES I WAS NOT, AND I WAS EXPECTED TO RESTRICT MY BEHAVIOR IN WAYS THEY WERE NOT, AND I JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS UNFAIR.

MY LOGICAL LITTLE MIND SAID, WHY SHOULD THEY GET THIS AND NOT BE?

WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO DO THIS AND NOT THEY?

IT WENT BACK AND FORTH.

MAYBE ALSO IT WAS THE LITTLE RATIONAL BRAIN OF MINE TAKING AWAY IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF FAMILY DYNAMICS IN WHICH I FOUND MYSELF.

TO BE HONEST, I THINK IT IS ALSO PART OF THE MOMENT I ARRIVED ON THE SCENE, WHICH IS WHEN THINGS WERE JUST BEGINNING TO CHANGE.

1954 SUPREME COURT MANDATED INTEGRATION OF SCHOOLS, VIRGINIA HAD A REALLY VIOLENT REACTION TO THAT AND SAID, WE WOULD PREFER TO CLOSE OUR SCHOOLS RATHER THAN INTEGRATE THEM SO THERE WAS A LOT OF DEBATE AROUND THAT.

QUESTIONS WERE IN THE AIR THAT HAD NOT BEEN THERE FOR MY GRANDMOTHERS AND MOTHER AND SO FORTH AND I THINK IT SET THE CONTEXT IN WHICH MY REBELLIOUSNESS EXPRESSED ITSELF.

GAUTAM: TODAY, MANY MORE PEOPLE CLAIM TO BE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY THAN ACTUALLY WERE.

HAVE YOU GONE BACK TO ANY OF THE PEOPLE YOU GREW UP WITH AND SAID, DO YOU REGRET NOT STANDING WITH ME ON THE BRIDGE?

DR. FAUST: NO.

I AM NOT THAT KIND OF PERSON.

ACCUSATORY REFLECTION IS NOT A VERY PRODUCTIVE STANCE.

I DID JUST GO BACK TO THE COMMUNITY I GREW UP IN IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE PUBLICATION OF THE BOOK AND I WAS A LITTLE SCARED ABOUT THAT AND WAS UNSURE HOW PEOPLE WOULD RECEIVE IT, BUT THEY SEEMED FASCINATED AND WELCOMING AND ACCEPTING, RECOGNIZING I HAD ALWAYS BEEN A LITTLE DIFFERENT, KIND OF AN ODD DUCK, REBELLIOUS, AND NOW THAT IS ACCEPTABLE IN A WAY IT WAS NOT WHEN I WAS YOUNGER.

SO MAYBE KIND OF A RECONCILIATION ABOUT IT ALL.

GAUTAM: I DID NOT THINK OF THAT QUESTION AS ACCUSATORY.

I THINK MOST PEOPLE, EVEN IF THEY WOULD NOT TAKE ON THE FULL RACIAL HIERARCHY TODAY, THEY WOULD SAY, I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT BACK THEN.

IT'’S INTERESTING TO ASK, IS THERE ANY SORT OF QUESTION OF WHAT THAT SAYS ABOUT THE WAY I VIEW THE WORLD TODAY THAT MAYBE I DID NOT THINK THAT WAY BACK THEN?

DR. FAUST: THAT IS IN A SENSE THE THRUST OF MUCH OF MY SCHOLARLY WORK, WHICH IS TO ASK PEOPLE COME TO CONVINCE THEMSELVES OF POSITIONS THAT LOOKING BACK WE FIND UNACCEPTABLE OR HORRIFYING, AND WHAT ENABLES THEM TO JUSTIFY THE BLINDNESS IS, AND THEREFORE WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM THEIR BEHAVIOR THAT HAS RELEVANCE FOR US TODAY?

WE ARE DOING THINGS TODAY I AM SURE THAT OUR SUCCESSORS WILL FIND HORRIFYING.

IT SOMETIMES I WONDER WHAT THEY ARE.

WE EAT MEAT, MY DAUGHTER IS A VEGETARIAN.

I WONDER IF GENERATIONS FROM NOW PEOPLE WILL LOOK AT US AND SAY, HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY HAVE EATEN MEAT?

HOW COULD WE POSSIBLY HAVE DONE WHAT WE HAVE TO THE CLIMATE?

THERE ARE MANY WAYS IN WHICH THE ASSUMPTIONS OF THE WAYS OF LIVING WILL LOOK HORRIFYING TO THOSE WHO COME AFTER US.

HOW CAN WE UNDERSTAND THOSE BETTER IN OUR OWN MOMENT INSTEAD OF WAITING TO HAVE THEM BE BROUGHT TO TASK BY THOSE WHO SUCCEED US?

GAUTAM: ON OUR FIRST DATE MY WIFE AND I AGREED OUR HYPOTHETICAL GRANDKIDS AT THE TIME WOULD LOOK AT US AS BARBARIANS.

THAT WAS WHAT WE THOUGHT.

DR. FAUST: THEY COULD TELL RIGHT AWAY.

[LAUGHTER] GAUTAM: I WONDER IF THE AWAKENING FROM YOU OF INJUSTICE, TODAY WE ARE IN INCREDIBLE FERMENT ABOUT INJUSTICES IN SOCIETY, IT IS NOT 1968 BUT MAYBE NOT FAR FROM IT.

DO YOU LEARN SOMETHING FROM YOUR HISTORY OF AWAKENING TO THOSE THAT YOU WOULD APPLY TO AMERICA TODAY AND SAY, HOW'’D WE GET OTHER PEOPLE TO COME TO THE SAME REALIZATION?

DR. FAUST: I WOULD NOT SAY APPLY IN A DIRECT SENSE OF, HERE IS MY LESSON TO YOU.

BUT I HOPE PEOPLE TAKE FROM THE BOOK A CONFIDENCE IN THE POSSIBILITY OF CHANGE AND A RECOGNITION THAT THINGS HAVE CHANGED, BECAUSE PEOPLE PUSHED AGAINST THEM AND THOUGHT ABOUT CHANGE, AND THAT THEREFORE WE SHOULD NOT FEEL DESPAIRING.

WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY ONCE AGAIN AND WE MUST HAVE HOPE AND BELIEVE IN OURSELVES AND OUR ABILITY TO CHANGE, EVEN IN WHAT LOOKED LIKE SUCH EXTREMELY CHALLENGING AND DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES.

GAUTAM: IF THERE IS ONE MOMENT FOR YOU WHERE YOU WOULD TO SAY YOU HAVE A REALIZATION THAT THE WORLD IS NOT AS IT SHOULD BE, WHAT IS THE ONE WE WOULD WANT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND?

DR. FAUST: THE MOMENT I WRITE ABOUT THE IN THE BOOK AS MY EFFICIENTLY -- EPIPHANY ON RACE TO HAPPEN WHEN I WAS NINE YEARS OLD AND WAS BEING DRIVEN HOME FROM SCHOOL BY AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN MAN WHO WORKS FOR MY FAMILY.

A RADIO ANNOUNCER WAS TALKING ABOUT RACIAL CONFLICTS I REFERRED TO EARLIER IN VIRGINIA IN THE AFTERMATH.

I SUDDENLY REALIZED MY SCHOOL WAS NOT QUITE BY ACCIDENT, THAT IN FACT -- WHITE BY ACCIDENT, THAT IN FACT BLACK PEOPLE HAD BEEN SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED FROM MY SCHOOL UNDER THE RULES IN VIRGINIA AND I WAS HORRIFIED.

I WAS HORRIFIED BECAUSE IT WAS UNFAIR AND BECAUSE NO ONE HAD TOLD ME.

PEOPLE HAD BEEN KEEPING THIS A VERY IMPORTANT UNDERSTANDING FROM ME.

SO FIRST I FELT LIKE I HAVE TO COMBAT THE UNFAIRNESS.

AND SECONDLY, WHO CAN I TRUST AND WHO CAN I RELY ON WHEN I HAVE BEEN TOLD ALL THESE THINGS THAT TURNED OUT TO BE QUITE DIFFERENT FROM THE WAY I HAD UNDERSTOOD THEM?

SO I WENT HOME AND I WROTE THE LETTER TO EISENHOWER THAT YOU SHOWED AND URGED HIM TO SUPPORT INTEGRATION AND BEHAVE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE DEMOCRATIC AND CHRISTIAN VALUES, THAT WAS THE LANGUAGE I USED AND I ENDED THE LETTER, MR. EISENHOWER, PLEASE LET COLOR TO PEOPLE, THAT WAS THE WORDING IN THE DAYS, -- COLORED PEOPLE, THAT WAS THE WORDING IN THE DAYS, GO TO SCHOOL WITH ME.

GAUTAM: SO YOU WENT FROM THAT REALIZATION IN THE BACKGROUND AND EVENTUALLY BECAME PRESIDENT OF HARVARD, WHERE I WAS YOUR LEAST IMPORTANT EMPLOYEE.

[LAUGHTER] WAS THERE ANYTHING YOU TOOK FROM THAT EXPERIENCE TO THE PRESIDENCY?

DR. FAUST: THAT IS SUCH A BIG QUESTION.

YES, MANY THINGS.

ONE WAS A COMMITMENT TO INCLUSION AND RACIAL JUSTICE, GENDER JUSTICE, I WAS THE FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT OF HARVARD SO IN A SENSE OF MY VERY EXISTENCE IN THE PRESIDENT'’S OFFICE MARK A DEPARTURE FOR HARVARD, A NEW MOVEMENT TOWARDS A MORE JUST INSTITUTION.

I HOPED AND TRIED AND STRUGGLED TO OPENING UP HARVARD IN A VARIETY OF DIMENSIONS AND INCREASED REPRESENTATION OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND OTHER MARGINALIZED INDIVIDUALS ON THE FACULTY AND STUDENT BODY AND SO FORTH.

THAT WAS PART OF IT.

BUT I THINK SOMETHING ELSE THAT CAME FROM IT WAS, YOU HAVE GOT TO ASK QUESTIONS.

YOUR MODE OF OPERATION AS A HUMAN BEING IS GOING TO TEND TO MAKE YOU COMPLACENT, JUST ACCEPT WHAT IS AROUND YOU, GET USED TO THE DAILY NEWS OF LIFE BUT YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO CHALLENGE YOURSELF AND SAY, WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG ABOUT THE WAY I AM LIVING?

HOW COULD IT BE BETTER?

HOW CAN I ELIMINATE SOME OF THE BLINDNESS IS THAT AFFECT HUMANS AS THEY MOVE THROUGH THE WORLD?

GAUTAM: DR. FAUST, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US TODAY.

FINALLY TONIGHT, THE BIG DIG IS ONE OF THE MOST NOTORIOUS AND TROUBLED INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY AND IT ALSO MIGHT BE ONE OF THE BEST THINGS TO EVER HAPPEN TO BOSTON, ULTIMATELY CREATING A BRIDGE, ROSE KENNEDY GREENWAY, AND MOST OF THE TIME A SMOOTHER RIDE TO LOGAN AIRPORT.

SO HOW DID THIS PROJECT AND UP A SYMBOL OF CORRUPTION AND YET ULTIMATELY DELIVER ON ITS PROMISES?

IAN EXPLAINS IN HIS NEW PROJECT, "THE BIG DIG" 40 YEARS AFTER MICHAEL DUKAKIS ANNOUNCED IT.

>> THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US HERE TODAY FOR THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT DECISION, A DECISION WITH RAMIFICATIONS THAT WILL BE FELT WELL INTO THE NEXT CENTURY.

>> THE BIG DIG WAS THIS HERCULEAN EFFORT TO TEAR DOWN AN ELEVATED HIGHWAY IN THE MIDDLE OF DOWNTOWN BOSTON, THIS DENSE, CRUSTY OLD CITY AND REPLACE THAT ELEVATED HIGHWAY WITH A TUNNEL.

[EXPLOSION WHOOSHING] [CROWD CHEERING] IAN: IT'’S A GREAT IDEA, IT SOUNDS BEAUTIFUL.

IT ENDED UP BEING EXTREMELY COMPLICATED, EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE, [WATER SPLASHING] AND QUITE CONTROVERSIAL.

>> IT WAS OVER BUDGET, OVERRUN , OVER TIME, OVER SCOPE.

YES, YES, I REMEMBER.

>> EVERYBODY HAD DIFFERENT OPINIONS ABOUT IT.

>> I REMEMBER IT WAS TAKING A VERY LONG TIME AND I DON'’T KNOW IF IT WAS GOING VERY WELL.

[LAUGHTER] >> I REMEMBER ALL THE BAD THINGS I HEARD ON THE NEWS ABOUT IT.

[LAUGHTER] >> IF YOU THINK YOU ARE FURIOUS ABOUT THE BIG DIG, THE MESS AND THE COST OVERRUNS, YOU'’VE GOT COMPANY.

>> THE COST HAS RISEN STEADILY SINCE 1983.

>> YOU'’RE PUTTIN'’ IT UNDERGROUND.

WHEN YOU PUT SOMETHING UNDERGROUND, IT SLOWS DOWN.

IT DOESN'’T GO FASTER.

>> ENGINEERS HAVE FOUND HUNDREDS OF LEAKS THROUGHOUT THE BIG DIG'’S TUNNELS.

>> THE QUESTION IS, WILL BOSTON SURVIVE THE BIG DIG?

>> IN THE PUBLIC IMAGINATION AT LARGE, THERE'’S THIS GENERAL SENSE THAT, OH, IT WAS KIND OF A KIND OF A MESS.

>> THE BIG DIG, A CONSTRUCTION PROJECT THAT BACKED UP TRAFFIC FOR 16 YEARS.

I MEAN, THERE ARE COMMUTERS JUST GETTING HOME NOW.

[LAUGHTER] IAN: THE STORY IS, OF COURSE, MUCH MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT.

>> SO NOW IS THE TIME TO FIX THE ARTERY AND FIX IT RIGHT.

IAN: IT IS THIS KIND OF UNLIKELY MOONSHOT OF A PROJECT THAT WAS BORN OUT OF ACTIVISM AND IDEALISM AND VISION, AND IT WAS CHAMPIONED ACROSS DECADES AND PASSED LIKE A BATON FROM ONE ADMINISTRATION TO THE NEXT AND IT WAS ACTUALLY BUILT, IT WAS ACHIEVED.

>> 1, 2, 3, GO!

[CROWD CHEERING] >> IT WAS A LONG TIME, BUT THE RESULTS ARE SPECTACULAR.

>> I MEAN, IT IS ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL AROUND HERE NOW.

INTERVIEWER: DO YOU THINK IT WAS WORTH IT?

>> YES, MOST DEFINITELY.

IAN: IT WAS REALLY A TOTAL TRANSFORMATION OF, YOU KNOW, A VERY OLD AMERICAN CITY, AND FOR ME, THAT'’S ALWAYS BEEN A BIT OF A DISCONNECT.

LIKE, WAIT, HOW COULD THIS THING THAT WE HATED SO MUCH BE THIS THING THAT WE ALMOST CAN'’T IMAGINE OUR CITY WITHOUT?

♪ SOMEWHERE THROUGH ALL THOSE STRUGGLES FROM THE BIG DIG, WE KIND OF LOST THE STORY.

AND SO I THINK THAT'’S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LEARN FROM, BECAUSE IF WE WANT TO INVEST IN OUR CITIES AND WE WANT TO INVEST IN OURSELVES, WE HAVE TO BELIEVE IN THAT INVESTMENT.

♪ GAUTAM: YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE FIRST TWO EPISODES OF "THE BIG DIG" PODCAST NOW.

THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT.

COME BACK TOMORROW FOR OUR EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH JANE GOODALL AFTER A SCREENING OF HER NEW DOCUMENTARY, REASONS FOR HOPE, AT THE MUSEUM OF SCIENCE.

THAT IS TOMORROW AT 7:00.

I AM GAUTAM MUKUNDA.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND GOOD NIGHT.