COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON: A DEBATE ON PROPOSITION 137, WHICH WOULD END JUDICIAL RETENTION ELECTIONS IN ARIZONA... ALSO TONIGHT: WE'LL HEAR ABOUT AN EXHIBIT OF MINIATURE DESIGNS AND SET PIECES OF BROADWAY SHOWS.... AND REMEMBERING LEGENDARY SPORTSCASTER AL MCCOY, WHO PASSED AWAY THIS WEEKEND.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE, NEXT, ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THE LATEST NEW YORK TIMES-SIENA POLL RELEASED TODAY SHOWS THAT DONALD TRUMP HOLDS A 5-POINT LEAD OVER KAMALA HARRIS AMONG REGISTERED VOTERS IN ARIZONA.

THAT 5-POINT LEAD IS THE SAME MARGIN THAT HARRIS HAD OVER TRUMP IN THE SAME POLL LAST MONTH.

THE TIMES REPORTS THAT LATINO VOTERS IN PARTICULAR, APPEAR TO HAVE MOVED AWAY FROM HARRIS, THOUGH 10% OF LATINO'S SURVEYED SAY THAT THEY ARE UNDECIDED FOR NOW.

THE POLL'S MARGIN OF ERROR IS 4.4%.

IT WAS CONDUCTED BY TELEPHONE FROM SEPTEMBER 17TH TO THE 21ST.

THE MAN ACCUSED OF ATTEMPTING TO ASSASSINATE DONALD TRUMP APPEARED IN COURT FOR A DETENTION HEARING TODAY.

58-YEAR-OLD RYAN ROUTH WAS ORDERED TO REMAIN BEHIND BARS.

PROSECUTORS SAY THAT A WITNESS HAS A LETTER IN WHICH ROUTH OUTLINES HIS PLANS TO ASSASSINATE TRUMP.

THE LETTER INCLUDES A $150,000 REWARD TO ANYONE WHO COULD QUOTE, "COMPLETE THE JOB," SHOULD ROUTH NOT SUCCEED.

ROUTH FACES TWO FIREARMS CHARGES, BUT MORE SERIOUS CHARGES COULD BE BROUGHT AS THE INVESTIGATION CONTINUES.

HEALTH NOTE: THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS MAKING MORE AT- HOME COVID-TESTS AVAILABLE.

THE TESTS ARE FREE, WITH EACH HOUSEHOLD ELIGIBLE TO ORDER UP TO FOUR OF THE TEST KITS.

THE NEW TESTS ARE EXPECTED TO ARRIVE IN HOMES BEFORE THE HOLIDAY SEASON AND CAN BE USED THROUGH THE END OF THE YEAR.

FOR MORE INFORMATION GO TO COVIDTESTS.GOV.

AND, WORLD NEWS: ISRAELI AIR- STRIKES AGAINST HEZBOLLAH TARGETS IN LEBANON TODAY REPORTEDLY KILLED HUNDREDS AND INJURED MORE THAN A THOUSAND.

IT WAS THE DEADLIEST DAY OF ISRAELI ATTACKS IN LEBANON SINCE ISRAEL FOUGHT A WAR WITH HEZBOLLAH IN 2006.

HEZBOLLAH TODAY VOWED TO CONTINUE ITS ATTACKS ON ISRAEL AND LAUNCHED AN ESTIMATED 165 ROCKETS ACROSS THE BORDER, WITH MOST REPORTED TO BE INTERCEPTED BY ISRAEL'S ANTI-MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEM.

TIME NOW FOR A DEBATE ON PROPOSITION 137, A BALLOT MEASURE THAT WOULD ELIMINATE MOST JUDICIAL RETENTION ELECTIONS FOR STATE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES AND SUPERIOR COURT JUDGES IN ARIZONA'S LARGER COUNTIES.

PROPONENTS OF PROP 137 SAY THAT RETENTION ELECTIONS ARE A WAY OF SEPARATING JUDGES FROM PARTISAN POLITICS.

OPPONENTS ARGUE THAT JUDICIAL RETENTION HAS WORKED FOR YEARS AND THERE'S NO NEED TO GET RID OF IT.

JOINING US NOW IN SUPPORT OF THE MEASURE, STATE REPRESENTATIVE ALEXANDER KOLODIN.

AND IN OPPOSITION OF PROP 137 CATHY SIGMON, CO-FOUNDER OF "CIVICS ENGAGEMENT BEYOND VOTING," AN EXHIBIT OF MINIATURE DESIGNS AND SET PIECES JUST OPENED AT THE MINI TIME MACHINE MUSEUM IN TUCSON.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

WE'LL START WITH THE OPPONENT.

WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA FOR ARIZONA?

>> JUST LIKE YOU SAID, TED, WE HAVE TO GET POLITICS OUT OF OUR JUDICIARY.

YOU KNOW, JUDGES ARE NOT POLITICIANS.

IN FACT, THEY CAN'T EVEN CAMPAIGN ON THEIR OWN BEHALF, SO WHAT HAPPENS WITH THESE JUDGES, WELL, DARK MONEY GROUPS LAUNCH CAMPAIGNS FOR AND AGAINST THEM.

NOW, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I DON'T REALLY WANT MY JUDGE, IF I HAVE A CASE IN FRONT OF HIM THAT'S SIGNIFICANT TO MY LIFE, THINKING ABOUT HOW DOES THE DECISION I MAKE GOING TO IMPACT WHETHER MONEY IS SPENT FOR OR AGAINST ME IN MY ELECTION.

WHAT I WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE IS A JUDGE THAT STICKS TO THE FACTS AND TO THE LAW.

AND THESE RETENTION MEASURES, THEY ARE CONFUSING TO PEOPLE.

THERE ARE ALMOST 50 PETITION ELECTIONS ON YOUR BALLOT, THAT'S WAY TOO MANY TO RESEARCH.

WHAT WE PROPOSE TO DO IS GIVE VOTERS A SMALLER AND MORE CURATED LIST OF JUDGES THAT YOU'LL ACTUALLY HAVE TIME TO DO YOUR BACKGROUND ON AND CAST AN INFORMED VOTE.

>> WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT IDEA?

>> PROP 137 IS ACTUALLY A PARTISAN POLITICAL MOVE TO WRAP OUR CURRENT JUDICIARY IN BUBBLE WRAP AND FREEZE IT AGAINST THE TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE PEOPLE.

NOT ONLY THAT, BUT IT WOULD THROW OUT OUR VOTES IN THE NOVEMBER ELECTION, SO IT WOULD COMPLETELY CANCEL OUR VOTES, AND IT WOULD MAKE SURE THAT WE DO NOT HAVE ANY ACCOUNTABILITY OVER THE JUDGES IN THE FUTURE.

ACTUALLY, MY REPRESENTATIVE KOLODIN HERE INTRODUCED AN AMENDMENT THAT BROUGHT PARTISANSHIP DIRECTLY INTO THE JOURNAL PERFORMANCE OF DUE PROCESS BY REQUIRING THE TWO PARTISAN LEGISLATORS SIT ON THE PERFORMANCE REVIEW COMMISSION AND ALSO ALLOWING ANY LEGISLATOR AT ANYTIME TO BRING A COMPLAINT ABOUT A JUDGE THAT THEY DON'T LIKE.

>> WANT TO RESPOND TO THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO THE AMENDMENT THAT I OFFERED AND WAS ACCEPTED IS A WAY OF PRESERVING CHECKS AND BALLOTS.

YOU KNOW, IN OUR FEDERAL CONSTITUTION, THERE'S AN ADVISE AND CONSENT PROCESS WHERE THE PRESIDENT APPOINTS AND THE DEFENDANT CONFIRMS.

WHENEVER YOU'RE ADJUSTING THE WAY THE CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE WORKING, YOU'VE GOTTA MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SUBSTITUTE SOMETHING FOR IT.

WHAT WE DID IS LOOK AT THE FEDERAL MODEL AND DECIDE TO ADJUST IT IN A WAY THAT CLOSELY MATCHED THE FEDERAL MODEL.

AND I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHAT SHE'S SAYING ABOUT WHAT PARTISAN LEGISLATOR BEING REQUIRED.

IN FACT, THE AMENDMENT ALLOWS THE LEGISLATURE TO APPOINT WHOEVER THEY WANT TO THE JOURNAL COMMISSION.

SO IF THERE'S SOMEBODY WHO'S A RESPECTED JURIST, SOMEBODY WHO'S A RESPECTED PROFESSOR, THEY CAN BE APPOINTED AS WELL.

>> WE ALREADY KNOW WHAT AN UNACCOUNTABLE JUDICIARY LOOKS LIKE BECAUSE WE HAVE THE FEDERAL MODEL.

WE HAVE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

THE SUPREME COURT HAS BEEN EMBROILED IN CONCERNS ABOUT THEIR ETHICAL RESPONSIBILITY, THEIR YACHT VACATIONS, THEIR LOAN FORGIVENESS AND DITCHING DECADES OF PRECEDENT, IF THAT ISN'T POLITICAL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS.

>> BUT IN TERMS OF ACCOUNTABILITY, IS THERE NOT A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JUDICIAL ACCOUNTABILITY AND POLITICAL ACCOUNTABILITY AND SHOULD JURISTS, JUDGES, SHOULD THEY FEAR POLITICAL REPERCUSSIONS ON A DECISION THAT THEY THINK MIGHT GO AGAINST THE TIDE?

>> I WOULD PRESENT THAT JUDGES ARE HIGHLY POLITICAL, AND BY POLITICAL, I DON'T MEAN NECESSARILY PARTISAN.

THEY MAKE JUDGES -- THEY MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT SO MANY THINGS IN OUR DAILY LIVES, PLUS THEY DON'T JUST READ THE LAW, THEY INTERPRET THE LAW I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT MY RATING OF LAW IS NOT NECESSARILY CLEAR AND PRECISE SO THE JUDGES HAVE TO READ INTO THOSE LAWS.

IF THE LAWS WERE STRAIGHTFORWARD, EVERY JOURNAL DECISION WOULD BE UNANIMOUS.

AND EVEN IN THE DECISION THAT RETURNED ARIZONANS TO THE 1864 ABORTION BAN, THERE WERE TWO VERY PASSIONATE DESCENTS.

>> MAKING SURE THAT THAT ACCOUNTABILITY MECHANISM STAYED IN PLACE IS WHAT THE AMENDMENT WAS ABOUT.

THERE IS A JOURNAL PERFORMANCE COMMISSION, AND THAT JOURNAL PERFORMANCE COMMISSION GETS SURVEYS ON PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY APPEAR IN FRONT OF THE JUDGES AND ATTORNEYS AND FIGURES OUT THAT THIS JUDGE ACTS IN AN ETHICAL FASHION, AS THEY HEAR EVERYBODY OUT AND THEN MAKE AN EVALUATION BEFORE EVERY ELECTION CYCLE DID THIS JUDGE MEET THE JOURNAL STANDARD PERFORMANCE OR NOT, IF THEY DECIDE THAT THEY DID NOT, THAT JUDGE STILL GOES ON THE BALLOT BUT YOU HAVE PROFESSIONALS MAKING THAT FIRST CUT EVALUATION SO YOUR BALLOT DOESN'T GET FLOODED WITH 50 JUDGES, THAT THE ONLY JUDGES YOU'RE GOING TO SEE ON THERE ARE THE JUDGES FOR WHOM THAT THIS PROFESSIONAL BODY SAYS THIS PERSON MAY NOT BE UP TO SNUFF.

>> BUT IN THE COMMISSION -- WE'VE HAD THE COMMISSION HERE ON THE SHOW, WE'VE DONE PROGRAMS THROUGHOUT THE YEARS, THEY BASICALLY GIVE THEIR RELATIONS AND SAY HERE'S WHAT THEY ARE, HERE'S THE RECOMMENDATION FOR YOU.

THEY DON'T MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT WOULD KEEP OTHERS OFF THE BALLOT.

IS THAT TOO MUCH TO GIVE TO THE COMMISSION?

>> I DON'T THINK SO, BECAUSE OF THAT AMENDMENT.

AGAIN, BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE NOW GETS TO PUT ONE PERSON -- BY THE WAY, THERE ARE 30 PEOPLE -- 30-PLUS PEOPLE ON THIS COMMISSION.

THE LEGISLATURE IS NOW GOING TO GET TO ADD ONE PERSON PER CHAMBER TO ENSURE THAT THE COMMISSION IS ACCOUNTABLE, DOES ITS JOB.

MADE SURE THE JUDGES WHO REALLY DON'T MEET STANDARDS DO WIND UP ON THE BALLOT, BUT WHAT WE'RE NOT GONNA DO IS OVERWHELM VOTERS.

I MEAN, I'M A PRACTICING LAWYER, AND I GOTTA TELL YA, I'M LOOKING AT THE JUDGES ON MY BALLOT SAYING I CAN'T CAST AN INFORMED VOTE ON THIS MANY DIFFERENT JUDGES.

I DON'T KNOW HALF OF THESE GUYS.

IF I HAD FIVE TO LOOK AT, COULD I ACTUALLY DO MY RESEARCH AND MAKE AN INFORMED VOTE.

>> SHOULD THE COMMISSION BE ABLE TO WIDDLE DOWN THAT LIST SO THAT ONLY THOSE THAT MAY OR MAY NOT MEET THE STANDARD, THAT THE COMMISSION HEARD -- WHY NOT NARROW IT DOWN, MAKE A LITTLE EASIER?

>> WELL, FIRST, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS THE POLITICIANS HAVE MADE IN FAVOR OF PROP 137 IS THAT WE VOTERS SHOULD NOT HAVE TO WORRY OUR LITTLE HEADS ABOUT ALL OF THESE JUDGES.

AND I REALLY FIND THAT LAUGHABLE.

THIS IS A SYSTEM THAT HAS BEEN WORKING VERY WELL FOR ALMOST 50 YEARS.

IT WAS CREATED BY CITIZENS INITIATIVE, THE PEOPLE WANTED THIS AND SUPPORTED BY JUSTICE SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR BACK IN 1974.

SO I REALLY DON'T SEE ANY REASON TO CHANGE OUR CURRENT PERFORMANCE REVIEW SYSTEM.

>> GOOD ENOUGH FOR SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR, GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE PAST 50-SOME-ODD YEARS, WHY NOT GOOD ENOUGH NOW?

WHAT HAPPENED?

WHAT CHANGED?

>> I DON'T THINK IT WAS EVER GOOD ENOUGH.

I THINK THAT THAT WAS ALWAYS A WORK IN PROGRESS, THIS IDEA OF MERIT SELECTION WAS A NEW IDEA.

IT CAME ABOUT IN THE PAST SEVERAL DECADES AND WE IMPLEMENTED IT IN THIS STATE, AND NOW IT'S TIME FOR US TO TWEAK IT.

>> IS IT TIME TO TWEAK IT BECAUSE TWO SUPREME COURT JUSTICES WHO AGREED THAT THE 1864 ABORTION BAN IN ARIZONA SHOULD BE THE RULE -- THE LAW OF THE LAND, THEY ARE UP FOR RETENTION IN A, AND B, THE RETROACTIVE NATURE IN THIS MEASURE.

HOW MUCH IS THAT DECISION AND THOSE TWO JUSTICES A PART OF THIS MEASURE?

>> SO THE FUNNY THING ABOUT THAT IS, I HAPPEN TO KNOW ONE OF THOSE JUDGES.

AND THE WAY HE DECIDED THAT CASE WAS VERY MUCH TO THE CONTRARY OF HIS OWN PERSONAL VIEWPOINT BUT THAT'S WHAT JUDGE DOES.

THEY'RE NOT POLICYMAKERS.

SO HE AS A GOOD HONORABLE JUDGE WAS BOUND BY WHAT THE LAW ACTUALLY IS, AND THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT CASE BASICALLY BASED THE ENTIRE CASE ON THIS IDEA THAT NANCY BARTOW, WHO I BELIEVE YOUR ORGANIZATION CALLED PRO-FIRST BIRTH SOMEHOW WOULD SPONSOR A LAW THAT WOULD LEGALIZE ABORTION UP TO 15 WEEKS.

IT WAS AN ABSURD ARGUMENT, WOULD HAVE MADE A MOCKERY OF THE LAW FOR THE COURT TO ACCEPT IT AND THEN THEY TURNED WARNED AND LET THE AAA INITIATIVE ON THE BALLOT.

THESE ARE DECISIONS THAT ARE EXPLAINED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT SUBSTITUTING THEIR POLICY PREFERENCES FOR THE VOTERS.

>> THE 1864, THE ABORTION BAN, HOW MUCH IS AT PLAY HERE?

AND AGAIN, THESE ARE JUSTICES WHO, WE WOULD THINK, MADE DECISIONS THAT THEY THOUGHT WERE CORRECT.

HOW MUCH SHOULD THEY PAY A PENALTY FOR THAT JOURNAL DECISION.

>> THEY BRING THEIR IDEOLOGY ON TO THE BENCH.

THEY'RE IDEOLOGYIES.

IDEALLY THEY WILL SET THOSE ASIDE WHEN THEY MAKE THEIR JOURNAL DECISIONS, BUT AS I SAID, THEY DO INTERPRET THE LAWS ACCORDING TO THE -- THEIR EXPERIENCES, THEIR STUDIES, AND THEIR PERSPECTIVE.

FOR EXAMPLE, JUSTICE BILL MONGOMERY, WHO WAS NOTORIOUS FOR POLITICIZING THE MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, PARTICULARLY EXPRESSING HIS EXTREME DISLIKE OF LGBTQ ARIZONANS AND ABORTION, HE DID BRING THOSE IDEOLOGIES ON TO THE BENCH.

AND IF THOSE FIND THEIR WAY INTO JOURNAL DECISIONS, THAT IS POISON US.

ARIZONA VOTERS EVERY RIGHT TO JUDGE THE JUDGES BASED ON THEIR POLITICAL BIAS.

>> SHOULD ARIZONA RESIDENTS LOSE THAT PARTICULAR RIGHT?

>> WELL, THEY WILL LOSE IT UNDER THIS, BUT THE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY -- >> THEY WOULD LOSE IT UNDER EVERYONE ON THE LIST?

YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT.

THAT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE IF THIS PASSES.

>> WHAT I BELIEVE MY PHONE SENT SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT JUDGES BE TREATED LIKE POLITICIANS.

THAT A VOTER LOOKS AT THOSE JUDGE'S DECISIONS AND SAYS DO I AGREE WITH THAT AS A MATTER OF POLICY.

BUT THAT'S NOT HOW JUDGES MAKE DECISIONS, AND IT'S NOT HOW JUDGES ARE SUPPOSED TO MAKE DECISIONS.

JUDGESES ARE SUPPOSED TOLL STICK TO THE LAW AND THE ACT FACTS REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEIR OWN PERSONAL OPINION OF WHAT THE LAW SHOULD BE IS.

IF YOU'RE MAD ABOUT WHAT THE LAW IS, VOTE ME AND MY COLLEAGUES OUT OFFICE.

DON'T VOTE JUDGES OUT OF OFFICE WHO ARE JUST DOING WHAT THE LAW SAYS THEY NEED DO.

>> RESPOND PLEASE.

>> WELL, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE PARTISAN ARIZONA STATE LEGISLATURE DOES NOT TRUST VOTERS TO HAVE THE COMMON SENSE TO MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS ABOUT THE QUESTIONS ON THEIR BALLOT.

I DON'T BELIEVE -- I DON'T HAVE TO BE A LAWYER TO SAY THAT I THINK IT'S WRONG FOR THEM TO TAKE OUR VOTES FROM THE NOVEMBER ELECTION AND CANCEL THEM AND ALSO SUPPRESS OUR ABILITY TO HAVE JUDGES FACE PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE FUTURE.

>> I WANT TO MAKE A POINT HERE.

>> QUICKLY.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE ON MY SIDE ARE MAD AT THE SUPREME COURT JUDGES TOO.

WE DON'T FEEL LIKE WE'VE HAD A FAIR SHAKE IN THE ELECTION STUFF, OKAY.

BUT WE CANNOT LET THE WAY THAT A JUDGE APPLIES THE LAW, WHICH WE MAY NOT LIKE -- RIGHT, WE CANNOT LET THAT INFLUENCE THE WAY THAT WE VOTE.

WE HAVE TO ALLOW JUDGES TO BE FEARLESS AND GO WHEREVER THE LAW IN FACT TAKES THEM.

THAT'S WHAT THIS MEASURE ALLOWS WHILE STILL GIVING VOTERS THE MECHANISM TO REMOVE UNDERPERFORMING JUDGES.

>> I GAVE YOU THE FIRST SHOT.

YOU GET THE LAST SHOT.

>> WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT JUDGES DO ALMOST ALWAYS GO WHERE THE LAW TAKES THEM.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE CERTAINLY CASE WHERE IS THEY BRING THEIR IDEOLOGY ON TO THE BENCH, AND ARIZONA VOTERS HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO WEIGH IN ON THOSE DECISIONS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE HAVE TO STOP IT RIGHT THERE.

GOOD DISCUSSION.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU BOTH HERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

HIGHLIGHTS OF THE EXHIBIT INCLUDE INTRICATE CONCEPT DESIGNS AND MINIATURE SETS FROM THE BROADWAY PRODUCTIONS OF HAMILTON AND BEETLEJUICE.

BILLY RUSSOIS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MINI TIME MACHINE MUSEUM.

HE JOINS US NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> A MINI TIME MUSEUM MINIATURE.

>> IT'S A MOUTHFUL.

>> WHAT'S IT ALL ABOUT.

>> IT'S A MUSEUM THAT WAS FOUNDED BY A PRIVATE COLLECTOR WHO JUST HAD A FASCINATION AND PASSION FOR MINIATURES, AND HER PRIVATE COLLECTION SPAWN THIS 14,000 SQUARE-FOOT MUSEUM, THAT WE NOW INVITE MANY OTHER ARTISTS IN TO SHARE THEIR WORK.

>> SO THESE ARE MINIATURE HOUSES, AND MINIATURE ROOM AS SOON AS.

>> DOLLHOUSES, DIE RAHM MASS, ROOM BOXES, WE'VE GOT A WHOLE ENCHANTED ROOM FULL OF FATHERS AND GOB BLINGS AND GHOULS.

>> -- FULL OF FAIRIES AND GOB BLINGS AND GHOULS.

AND DAVID CORNS IS ONE OF THE MOST VISIONARY SET DESIGNERS ON BROADWAY.

HE DID HAMILTON, BEETLEJUICE, THE VAN GOGH IMMERSIVE EXHIBIT, HE'S DONE THE OSCARS TWICE.

HE'S DONE LADY GAGA CONCERTS.

SO HE'S GOT A MAJOR PRESENCE IN THE CREATIVE DESIGN WORLD.

>> YOU DON'T HAVE A MINI GA GA, DO YOU?

>> NO, I DON'T.

>> YOU MENTIONED HAMILTON AND BEETLEJUICE.

I THINK WE HAVE A SHOT OF HAMILTON.

AGAIN, THESE ARE MINIATURES OF -- GOODNESS GRACIOUS, THERE THEY ARE.

>> THIS IS WHAT INFORMS THE SET DESIGN.

WHAT YOU SEE ON STAGE, THIS ALL WAS DEVELOPED BEFORE THEY EVEN WENT INTO REHEARSAL AUTOS.

>> OH, MY GOODNESS.

AND WHAT ARE THEY MADE OF?

>> MOSTLY, IN THE BEGINNING IT STARTS WITH CARDBOARD.

THEY JUST DO WHITE MODELS AND THEN THEY START TO ADD TEXTURE.

AND EVERYTHING IN THEM WILL DO -- ANYTHING THAT THEY CAN CREATE AS MUCH AS WHAT IT WILL REALLY LOOK LIKE, AND WHEN YOU SEE THAT AND WHAT WE HAVE IS THAT MODEL IS INSIDE THE SET WALLS BUILT BY THE PRODUCTION COMPANY THAT BUILDS THE FULL-SIZE SET, SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY -- THEY'RE INSIDE THE REAL WALLS THAT THEY INFORMED HOW THOSE DOLLS WERE BUILT.

>> AND I THINK WE ALSO HAVE SOMETHING FROM BEETLEJUICE TOO, AND THERE'S YOUR GHOULS AND GOBLINS.

STILL, LOOK AT THIS.

THIS IS THE PLAY.

THIS IS WHAT BROADWAY -- >> AND THAT'S THE MODEL.

>> THAT'S THE MODEL.

THAT'S AMAZING.

I MEAN, ARE THERE PEOPLE WHO -- I MEAN, THIS IS WHAT THEY DO WITH THEIR LIVES, THEY PUT THESE LITTLE THINGS TOGETHER.

>> AND THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO RECREATE WHAT THEY SEE ON STAGE.

BUT THESE MODELS ARE ACTUALLY THE TOOLS THAT DEVELOP THE VISUAL VOCABULARY AND THE PRODUCTION DESIGN.

THESE ARE MADE IN THAT PROCESS.

>> WHAT IT DOES IS FOLLOW THE PROCESS AND THE MINIATURES ROLL IN THAT PROCESS OF HOW DO YOU CREATE THIS BIG WORLD.

YOU'VE GOTTA START SMALL SO YOU CAN CONTROL IT.

>> YEAH.

AND THERE ARE FANS OUT THERE THAT MAKE THEIR OWN LITTLE THINGS?

>> YES.

AND WE DID A CALL TO ARTISTS, AND WE'VE GOT 23 PIECES THAT WERE MADE BY FANS AND JUST ARDENT ADMIRERS OF HIS WORK, AND THEY'VE REINTERPRETED IT, AND WITHIN HIS EXHIBIT OF HIS WORK, THERE'S A BIG CASE THAT IS FILLED WITH THEIR WORK.

>> WHAT HAS HIS RESPONSE BEEN?

WHAT, COME DOWN AND DO A RESIDENCY?

>> HE CAME, AND HE WAS HERE FOR LIKE -- THE LOAD-IN TOOK THREE WEEKS, TO PUT THAT INTO OUR SPACE.

HE WAS HERE FOR 12 DAYS OF THAT, AND WE DID DISCUSSIONS, AND HE DID A TALK WITH STUDENTS, AND WE HAD A DINNER WHERE PEOPLE COULD GET -- I WANTED TO MAKE ARTISTS PART OF THE CULTURE AND FOR OUR VISITORS TO KNOW THE ARTISTS AS WELL AS THEIR WORK.

>> WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE?

IS HE USED TO THIS KINDS OF THING?

>> HE'S USED TO IT ON A MUCH BIGGER SCALE.

I WORK WITH DAVID.

I CAME FROM THE THEATER IN NEW YORK.

I WORKED OFF-BROADWAY WITH HIM 20 YEARS AGO.

AND WHEN I GOT THIS JOB AT THE MINI TIME MACHINE, I CALLED HIM UP, AND I SAID, WHAT DO YOU THINK A RETROSPECTIVE ON YOUR WORK.

AND HE SAID YES.

SO IT WAS -- IT'S REALLY HUMBLING, BUT IT'S EXCITING TO LET PEOPLE INTO THAT PROCESS, WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO DO THIS.

>> YEAH, WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO DO THIS.

AND BY THE WAY, HERE'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

IT LOOKS PRETTY COOL.

>> IT IS PRETTY COOL.

IT REALLY IS.

I HAVE TO ADMIT.

I LOOK AT IT, AND I'M LIKE, I CAN'T BELIEVE I GOT THIS TO TUCSON AND TO BE PART OF ARIZONA.

>> WHERE CAN PEOPLE GET MORE INFORMATION ON THIS?

>> THE MINI TIME MACHINE.ORG.

>> WELL, IT'S A GREAT RELIEF FROM ALL OF THE POLITICAL STUFF GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

>> I KNOW IT.

>> JUST CRAWL INTO ONE OF THOSE HOUSES.

BITTY RUSSO, MINI TIME MACHINE AND RUNS THROUGH MAY.

CONGRATULATIONS.

THIS IS GREATS STUFF.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

AL MCCOY, THE PLAY-BY-PLAY VOICE OF THE PHOENIX SUNS FOR MORE THAN 50 YEARS, DIED SATURDAY AT THE AGE OF 91.

WE SPOKE TO AL MCCOY A NUMBER OF TIMES OVER THE YEARS, INCLUDING A VISIT IN 2019, IN WHICH "THE REAL MCCOY," AS HE WAS KNOWN, TALKED ABOUT HIS LIFE AND HIS CAREER WHICH HAD ITS SPARK AT HIS BOYHOOD HOME ON A FARM IN IOWA.

>> WHEN I GROUP ON THAT FARM, TED, IT WAS DURING THE DEPRESSION.

YOU MAY REMEMBER, IT WAS IN ALL THE PAPERS.

>> I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT I'VE READ ABOUT, IT YEAH.

>> WE HAD NO ELECTRICITY.

WE HAD NO RUNNING WATER.

AND THAT LASTED UNTIL I WAS ABOUT 8 OR 9.

BUT WE HAD A BATTERY RADIO.

AND SO I KIND OF GOT HOOKED ON LISTENING TO SPORTING EVENTS ON RADIO JUST AS A KID GROWING UP.

AND IT WAS SOMETHING I ENVISIONED WHEN I HEAR SOMETHING FROM YANKEES STADIUM OR CHICAGO STADIUM OR BOSTON GARDEN, AND IT MIGHT BE BILL STERN OR ONE OF THOSE OLD-TIME BROADCASTERS, AND I THOUGHT, MAN, THIS WOULD BE GREAT.

SO I HAD THAT INTEREST JUST AS A KID GROWING UP ON A FARM.

>> DID PHOENIX FEEL LIKE HOME RELATIVELY QUICKLY AFTER YOU GOT HERE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S INTERESTING, TED, BECAUSE I NEVER THOUGHT I'D BE HERE THAT LONG.

AND EVENTUALLY, I WAS OFFERED THE BASEBALL JOB IN SAN FRANCISCO WITH THE GIANTS ON TWO DIFFERENT OCCASIONS.

BUT BY THAT TIME, I HAD GOTTEN THE SUNS JOB, AND AT ONE TIME I WAS GOING TO TRY DO BOTH, AND I FINALLY DECIDED TO STAY IN PHOENIX, WHICH I'M VERY HAPPY THAT I DID.

BUT IT TOOK A WHILE.

WE'VE BEEN SO FORTUNATE HERE IN PHOENIX AND THE 50 YEARS OF THE SUNS, ALL THE GREAT PLAYERS THAT WE HAVE HAD, IT'S JUST AMAZING.

AND THE FACT THAT WE HAVE BEEN IN THE NBA FINALS TWICE, AND THE IRONIC THING, TED, IN BOTH OF THOSE NBA FINALS, THEY WERE TRIPLE OVERTIME GAMES, ONLY TIME IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE, AND OF COURSE THAT'S ONE OF THE HIGHLIGHTS OF MY CAREER, HAVING BROADCAST THOSE GAMES AROUND THE WORLD, TRIPLE OVERTIMES IN BOTH TIMES AGAINST BOSTON AND AGAINST CHICAGO WHEN THE SUNS WERE IN THE FINALS.

THE SUNS WERE THE FIRST, THE SUNS THE ORIGINAL, AND I THINK IT'S STILL IN THE HEART OF THE FANS HERE IN PHOENIX.

>> 3 SECONDS, 2 SECONDS...

HE GOT THE 3!

SHAZAM!

>> I'M SATISFIED.

I'M SATISFIED WITH WHAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO.

I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SEEN THE SUNS WIN AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP.

I DON'T THINK I'D BE INVOLVED IN THAT.

SO I LOOK BACK, AS I SAID, IT'S BEEN A GOOD RIDE, FOR A FARM BOY FROM IOWA TO BE ABLE TO DO THE THINGS THAT I'VE DONE, I JUST THANK GOD EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE.

>> AL MCCOY, ALL-TIME VOICE FOR THE PHOENIX SUNS.

>>> THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.