>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH -- RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO OUR "METROFOCUS" FRONT PAGE FORECAST.

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

WE BEGIN TONIGHT'S SHOW AS WE DO EVERY MONDAY WITH A LOOK AT THE NEWS MAKING NATIONAL AND LOCAL HEADLINES AND HOW THEY IMPACT THE TRI-STATE.

AND ON THIS EVE OF THE SECOND SENATE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL AGAINST PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR INCITING THE DEADLY CAPITOL HILL RIOT WE'LL OF COURSE EXAMINE THE VOTE TO DISMISS, THE CASE TO CONVICT AND WHAT'S LABELED A "SHODDY" DENIAL DEFENSE.

PLUS, AS WE DIG OUT FROM YET ANOTHER SNOWSTORM AND VACCINATIONS PICK UP YET AGAIN, WE'LL ANALYZE WHAT'S NEXT FOR NEW YORKY'S ROCKY ROLLOUT AND RADICAL DISPARITIES PERSIST.

GET RIGHT INTO IT WITH OUR ROUNDTABLE OF EXPERTS.

UP FIX, JENNIFER RODGER, -, ADJT PROFESSOR AND WELCOME BACK TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANKS, JENNA.

GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> WE'VE ALSO GOT ELJOY WILLIAMS, PRESIDENT OF THE BROOKLYN NAACP.

ALSO A SENIOR ADVISER FOR RAY McGUIRE'S NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CAMPAIGN AND A BOARD MEMBER AT HIGHERS HEIGHTS FOR AMERICA, WORKING TO EXPAND POLITICAL POWER FOR BLACK WOMEN.

ELJOY, WELCOME BACK TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME AGAIN.

>> LAST, CERTAINLY NOT LEAST, IS JOSEPH PINION.

JOE IS A REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, CHAIR OF THE CONSERVATIVE COLOR COALITION AND HOST OF NEWS MAX'S SATURDAY AGENDA.

JOSEPH, WELCOME BACK TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SO LET'S START IN WITH, OF COURSE, WE ARE ON THE EVE OF A SENATE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL NUMBER TWO.

PRESIDENT TRUMP AS WE ALL KNOW IS NO LONGER IN OFFICE, AND, I DON'T THIS TRIAL IS ABOUT TO KICK OFF TOMORROW.

I WANT YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON THE CASE PRESENTED AND AT LEAST WHAT WE KNOW OF WHAT'S POSSIBLY GOING TO BE DONE.

THE LEGAL PROCEEDINGS THAT WILL TAKE PLACE.

>> WE'RE STARTING TOMORROW, AND THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS GOING TO BE DONE?

WE STILL HAVEN'T HEARD WHETHER THERE WILL BE WITNESSES, FOR EXAMPLE.

WE KNOW THE HOUSE MANAGERS WILL PRESENT THEIR CASE, AND IT LIKELY WILL BE ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT THEY SAID IN THEIR BRIEFS LAST WEEK.

80 PAGES OR SO, GOING THROUGH THE NARRATIVE OF THE PRESIDENT'S CREATION OF THE BIG LIE.

HIS INSISTENCE THAT HE WON THE ELECTION.

HIS ATTEMPTS TO GO TO COURT TO OVERTURN THE RESULTS.

HIS ATTEMPTS TO GET STATE ELECTORS AND STATE LEGISLATURES TO OVERTURN THE VOTE AND FINALLY HIS BRINGING OF PEOPLE TO THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6th FOR A RALLY WHERE HE EXHORTED THEM TO MARCH DOWN TO THE CAPITOL AND STOP MIKE PENCE FROM CERTIFYING THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE THAT ENTIRE NARRATIVE, UNLIKE WHAT THE TRUMP SIDE WANTS PEOPLE TO THINK.

IT'S NOT JUST WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6th.

I THINK THAT WILL BE THE GIST OF THE HOUSE MANAGER'S PRESENTATION.

INCLUDING LOTS OF VIDEOS, SOME OF WHICH WE'RE ALL SEEN ON TELEVISION.

THE QUESTION WILL IT INCLUDE BEHIND-THE-SCENES THINGS WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE PRESIDENT'S REACTION WATCHING THINGS UNFOLD ON TELEVISION.

WHY IT TOOK HIM SO MANY HOURS TO TELL THOSE PEOPLE TO STAND DOWN.

WHY IT TOOK SO MANY HOURS TO GET ADDITIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AND MILITARY FORCES ON THE SCENE.

SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS WON'T BE ANSWERED EFFECTIVELY, I DON'T THINK, UNLESS WE GET SOME WITNESSES IN THERE.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE WAITING TO HEAR AND ALSO DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE.

IT COULD TAKE A FEW DAYS, COULD TAKE A COUPLE OF WEEK.

A LOT WILL DEPEND ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY DECIDE TO CALL WITNESSES.

>> NOW, JOSEPH, TURNING TO YOU, AS I CHARACTERIZED IN THE INTRO, THERE ARE SEVERAL LEGAL SCHOLARS WHO ARE REFERRING TO AT LEAST THE DEFENSE AS WE UNDERSTAND IT AS "SHODDY."

I WANTED TO GET AT LEAST YOUR PERSPECTIVE OF THE CASE, AT LEAST THE DEFENSE CASE, ON THE PART OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> I MEAN, LOOK.

I THINK THAT THERE ARE MANY ARGUMENTS -- TO BE MADE -- LEGALITY IS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NO LONGER THE PRESIDENT, HE IS A PRIVATE CITIZEN.

INCITING A RIOT IS A CRIME.

IF PEOPLE BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT COMITTED A CRIME WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DRAG PRIVATE CITIZEN DONALD TRUMP INTO COURT.

WE ARREST PEOPLE EVERY DAY.

PLENTY OF PEOPLE ARE SITTING IN JAIL CELLS AWAITING TRIAL FOR CRIMES THEY HAVE COMMITTED.

SO WE HAVE AN OVER INCARCERATION PROBLEM IN AMERICA.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO DON'T SEEM TO THINK THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN A COURT OF LAW OF THE DEMOCRATS.

SO I THINK WE HAVE TO BE REMINDING OURSELVES IMPEACHMENT IS INHERENTLY A POLITICAL PROCESS, NOT A LEGAL PROCESS.

AND THAT THERE ARE ALL MANNERS OF PEOPLE FROM THE U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FROM NEW YORK, TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA WHO HAVE INDICATED THEY ARE LOOKING INTO PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ACTIVITIES.

WE NOW HAVE THE ACTIVITIES THAT OCCURRED ON THE 6th MOST PEOPLE FOUND REPREHENSIBLE, INCLUDING MYSELF.

I THINK TO MY COLLEAGUE'S POINT THAT IT'S LESS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED ON THE 6th.

IT'S MORE ABOUT THE 64-DAY DRUM BEAT OF THE ELECTION BEING A SHAM OR SOMEHOW BEING STOLEN, WITH, I THINK, CONGRESS, THEY HAVE THE PURVIEW FOR THAT CONVERSATION BUT HAVING SAID IS THAT, THE PRESIDENT IN OFFICE, NO LONGER IN OFFICE, I THINK THE PROPER VENUE FOR US TO AIR THESE GRIEVANCES TO THE PEOPLE WANT ACCOUNTABILITY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP IS IN A COURT OF LAW, WHICH THE HOUSES OF CONGRESS IS CERTAINLY NOT.

>> ELJOY, BRING YOU IN AND GET YOUR TAKE, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU ARE ALSO A HISTORIAN.

TO GET YOUR TAKE ON WHAT KIND OF, AT LEAST, SOCIAL PRECEDENCE DOES THIS CREATE IF PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NOT CONVICTED?

WHICH BY ALL ACCOUNTS THERE ISN'T A LOT OF BELIEF THE SENATE WILL CONVICT, BECAUSE THIS WOULD SET SOME SORT OF UNDERSTANDING, OR PRECEDENT, AMONGST VOTERS, SINCE THIS IS THE POLITICAL PROCESS?

>> YES.

THE INTERESTING.

THE REASON CONGRESS IS ACTING AND DESPITE WHATEVER CRIMINAL CASE OR AS JOSEPH MENTIONED THE OTHER INSTITUTES THEY WANT TO PURSUE ANYTHING IN A LEGAL AND/OR CRIMINAL MATTER, THERE IS THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT HE COMMITTED THESE ACTS OR ALLEGEDLY COMMITTED THESE ACTS IN TERMS HOW THIS WOULD PLAY OUT WHILE HE WAS PRESIDENT.

AND SO IN THE CONVERSATION IN TERMS OF CONGRESS' ROLE, CONGRESS HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO PURSUE THESE CHARGES AS HE WAS PRESIDENT AT THAT TIME.

SECOND OF ALL, AS YOU MENTIONED, AS WE TALKED ABOUT JUST BEFORE WE CAME ON, WE ALSO LIVE A SOCIETY, IN A COUNTRY, IN TERMS OF OUR POLITICS, OF PRECEDENT.

RIGHT?

I CAN IMAGINE HOW THIS ERA, THESE QUESTIONS THAT WE ARE DELIBERATING, ON THE ACTIONS THAT CONGRESS IS TAKING NOW, THE PRECEDENT IT SETS 20, 30 YEARS AGO IF WE HAD A PRESIDENT TOWARDS OF END OF HIS TERM, LAST FEW DAYS COMMITS CAN CERTAIN ACTS WHETHER OR NOT CONGRESS SHOULD PURSUE IMPEACHMENT IN THAT WAY.

I THINK IT'S MY VIEW AND A NUMBER OF OTHERS WHY CONGRESS SHOULD PURSUE THIS, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT WE WANT TO SET THE PRECEDENT THAT NO MATTER IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, TWO YEARS LEFT, TWO MONTHS OR TWO DAYS, THAT YOU WOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BY CONGRESS FOR AN IMPEACHMENT PROCESS FOR ANY ACTIONS THAT OCCUR UNDER YOUR PRESIDENCY.

>> AND, JENNIFER, JUST TO BRING YOU BACK ON, AS WE WERE DISCUSSING RIGHT BEFORE WE STARTED, THE LEGAL PRECEDENT THAT NOT CONVICTING PRESIDENT TRUMP WOULD SET, I GUESS, GOING FORWARD.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN IN TERMS OF PRESIDENTIAL BEHAVIOR, WHAT IS ALLOWED AND WHAT'S NOT ALLOWED?

>> INTERESTINGLY, IT DOESN'T REALLY SET A LEGAL PRECEDENT, BECAUSE AS JOSEPH POINTED OUT, THIS ISN'T A LEGAL PROCEEDING.

IT'S A -- IT'S A POLITICAL PROCEEDING.

BUT I THINK IT DOES SET A PRECEDENT.

LISTEN, FOR THE SAME REASON THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF LEGAL SCHOLARS AND HISTORIANS ARGUE IT IS CONSTITUTIONAL TO HAVE THIS TRIAL BECAUSE THE SENATE HAS DONE IT BEFORE FOR OFFICIALS OUT OF OFFICE AT THE TIME OF THE TRIAL, IT SETS THE OPPOSITE PRESS DEPARTMENT.

IF WE DO SEE A PRESIDENT IMPEACHED IN YEARS TO COME WHO LEAVES OFFICE BEFORE THE TRIAL, YOU WILL UNQUESTIONABLY HEAR HIM OR HER ARGUING THAT IT'S AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL PROCEEDING BECAUSE IN THE SECOND IMP IMPEACHMENT OF DONALD J. TRUMP THE SENATE VOTED TO ACQUIT ON THAT BASIS.

THAT WON'T BE PRECEDENT.

SAME WAY DONALD TRUMP IS ARGUING AGAINST PRECEDENT NOW BUT GIVES PEOPLE SOMETHING TO CLING TO.

VAST MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS APPARENTLY AGAINST CONVICTION WANT TO DO IT ON THIS PROPOSAL BASIS AND DON'T WANT TO GRAPPLE WITH WHAT DONALD J. TRUMP ACTUALLY DID.

THIS GIVES THEM AN OUT TO AVOID DOING THAT.

>> SO, THEN, MY FINAL QUESTION ON THIS SUBJECT IS, THE FACT THAT EVEN THOUGH PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NO LONGER IN OFFICE, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, HE'S STILL TAKING UP A LOT OF OXYGEN IN THE POLITICAL CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW, WHEN THERE'S SO MANY OTHER BIG ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE TACKLED.

AND SO JOSEPH, START WITH YOU AND JUST GET YOUR OPINION ON JUST THE POLITICAL WHIMS WITH DONALD TRUMP STILL BEING, REALLY, ESPECIALLY DURING THIS SENATE TRIAL, WILL BE THE FOCUS OF A LOT OF POLITICAL CONVERSATION, WHEN, AGAIN, WE STILL HAVE THE CORONAVIRUS, WE STILL HAVE, YOU KNOW, WEALTH INEQUALITY, A RACIAL RECKONING.

ALL OF THESE THINGS THE COUNTRY HAS TO DEAL WITH.

JOSEPH, ARE YOU STILL WITH US?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN -- YES.

SO I THINK, FOR ME PERSONALLY, I THINK THE REALITY IS, HE'S TAKEN UP TOO MUCH OXYGEN.

I WILL REMIND PEOPLE THAT THE FIRST TIME THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS IMPEACHED, WE HAD COVID COMING TO OUR SHORES, AND NOW FOR THE SECOND TIME, WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP IS BEING IMPEACHED, WE HAVE COVID RUNNING RAMPANT.

WE HAVE A VACCINATION PROCESS THAT IS PRACTICALLY IN NEUTRAL.

SO I THINK ON SOME BASIC LEVEL WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THE FACT THAT ALL OF THE OXYGEN IS BEING SUCKED OUT OF THE ROOM.

SHOULD WE BE ABLE TO DO TWO THINGS AT ONCE?

ABLE TO WALK AND CHEW GUM AT THE SAME TIME?

WE SHOULD BE, BUT HISTORY HAS SHOWN WE HAVE STRUGGLED TO DO STOW AND THE PARTICULAR ED IS SHOWING US WE ARE MIGHTILY BEHIND WHERE WE NEED TO BE ADDRESSING THE CORE ISSUES FACING MOST AMERICANS.

HOW DO THEY KEEP A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS?

KEEPING FOOD ON THE TABLE?

MOST IMPORTANTLY, NOT FIND'SAL THEMSELVES A VICTIM TO THIS HORRIFIC VIRUS?

ULTIMATELY, IS THE PURVIEW OF CONGRESS TO IMPEACH PRESIDENT TRUMP?

YES, THEY DID IMPEACH HIM.

HE IS NO LONGER IN OFFICE.

TO ME YOU CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT WE ARE BEING DERELICT TO RESPONSIBILITY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHEN THERE ARE BODIES WHO HAVE THE CAPACITY AND ARGUABLY MORE EQUIPPED TO HOLD DONALD TRUMP ACCOUNTABLE THAN CONGRESS WHEN CONGRESS SHOULD BE TAKING CARE OF THEIR MOST IMPORTANT JOB, MAKING SURE AMERICANS STAY ALIVE.

>> OKAY.

ELJOY, DID YOU WANT TO ADD ON THAT?

I WAS GOING TO MOVE ON TO ANOTHER TOPIC.

IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADD IN, PLEASE, FEEL FREE.

>> ADD IN QUICKLY I ACTUALLY DISAGREE TRUMP IS IN THIS MEASURE, TAKING THE OXYGEN OUT OF THE COLLECTIVE ROOM, BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CONGRESS DOING THE MULTIPLE THINGS AT ONE TIME AND THEY ARE.

THEY ARE ADDRESSING THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW.

THEY ARE PUTTING FORWARD LEGISLATION AND DISCUSSING POLICY AND HOW DO WE GET MONEY BACK INTO OUR ECONOMY THROUGH GOING THROUGH GIVING STIMULUS TO PEOPLE?

THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW DO WE GET QUICKLY, QUICKLY RAMP UP ADDITIONAL VACCINES TO DISTRIBUTE TO STATES.

THAT WORK IS BEING DONE.

THE QUESTION OVERALL IS, WHAT IS GARNERING MEDIA HEADLINES AND MEDIA ATTENTION AND WHAT IS CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION, RATHER THAN UPLIFTING THOSE THINGS, AND THOSE DISCUSSIONS, THAT ARE HAPPENING.

QUITE FRANKLY, I REMEMBER JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO WHEN TRUMP WAS, YOU COULDN'T EVEN WATCH TV.

YOU KNOW?

WITHOUT THAT CONVERSATION.

NOW HAVING THE CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE ARE EXPERIENCING IN THEIR, ON THE GROUND, I THINK IT'S RISING MUCH MORE TO THE TOP, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S A CONVERSATION OF TRUMP HIMSELF TAKING THE OXYGEN OUT OF THE ROOM.

>> WITH THAT, WE ARE GOING TO LEAVE THAT SUBJECT AND TURN TO, AS ELJOY POINTED OUT, OTHER IMMEDIATE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING.

AND SO JOSEPH, BACK TO YOU, AND JUST ASK WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN OF THE VACCINE ROLLOUT?

BECAUSE I DO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO ACTUALLY GET VACCINATED, BUT THE FACT THAT IT HAS BEEN SO ROCKY FOR SO MANY PEOPLE.

WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO YOU ABOUT THE WAY IT WAS HANDLED?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK, TO ME, I MEAN, WE'RE TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM THE POLITICS BUT I THINK THE VACCINATION PROCESS HAS BEEN INHERENTLY POLITICAL.

I THINK THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF ENERGY SPENT TALKING ABOUT THE POLITICS OF WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS DOING OR WASN'T DOING AND WE HAVING AN 11-MONTH PERIOD WE KNEW THE VACCINE WAS COMING, YET IT IS GLARINGLY OBVIOUS RIGHT NOW THAT THE PEOPLE WHO WERE EMPOWERED TO BUILD THE ON-RAMP AND MAKE SURE THAT THE VACCINATION PROCESS WENT SMOOTHLY DID NOT DO THEIR JOBS.

SO TO BE CLEAR -- THERE ARE PEOPLE RIGHT NOW IN DESPERATE NEED OF ACCESS TO THAT VACCINE ACROSS THIS COUNT WHO CAN'T GET IT.

VACCINATIONS EXPIRING BECAUSE WE CAN'T GET APPOINTMENTS SET UP IN A PROPER MANNER.

IS THIS STUFF BEING TAKEN CARE OF AND EVENTUALLY WE'LL GET IT RIGHT?

SURE.

BUT WE KNOW TIME LOSS IS LIFE LOSS.

WE SHOULDN'T BE IN THIS SITUATION.

SO I THINK ULTIMATELY AT THE END OF THE DAY, YES, TO ELJOY'S POINT, WE DO HAVE, THE WORK IS GETTING DONE, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ISSUES IMPACTING AMERICANS, BUT IF WE'RE BRUTALLY HONEST IN THE WAY WE HAVE THE LAST FOUR YEARS WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW IS UNACCEPTABLE AND UNACCEPTABLE BY ANY MEASURE.

I THINK THE NOTION THAT WE TREAD LIGHTLY ON THAT SUBJECT OR TRY TO LOOK BACKWARDS AS TO WHY THAT WAS THE CASE, I THINK DOES A GREAT DISSERVICE TO THE PEOPLE WHO JUST NEED US TO GET IT RIGHT.

>> WELL, ELJOY, WHAT DO YOU AT LEAST SEE ESPECIALLY WITH THE INEQUITIES WE ARE SEEING JUST BEING FURTHER EXASPERATED EVEN WITH THE VACCINE ROLLOUT WHERE UNDERSTANDING THERE ARE PLACES WHERE, FROM THE EXAMPLE IN NEW YORK CITY, WHERE ESPECIALLY AFFLUENT WHITE PEOPLE ARE GETTING THE VACCINATION SHOT AS OPPOSED TO AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND LATINO AMERICANS?

WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHT ON THE INEQUITIES THAT EVEN THE VACCINE ROLLOUT IS SOMEHOW STILL ATTACHED TO RACE AND INEQUALITY?

>> THIS IS ONE OF THE THOSE INSTANCES WHERE THE CIVICS TEACHER IN ME MEETS THE POLITICAL STRATEGIST IN ME, BECAUSE THERE IS THE FEDERAL RESPONSE AND WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO DO AND THEN THERE IS WHAT OUR STATE AND LOCAL, MUNICIPAL, ENTITIES NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO FIBS THIS PROBLEM.

I WOULD AGREE WITH JOSEPH ACROSS THE BOARD THERE ARE FAILURES HERE.

WE ACTUALLY DIDN'T LEARN AND RETOOL FROM THE TESTING PHASE THAT WE WERE IN, INTO THE VACCINATION PHASE.

SO ONE IN TERMS.

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT WE SHOULD LAY ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW IS MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH SUPPLY AND THAT IT'S DISTRIBUTED TO THE AREAS IN WHICH, THE STATES IN WHICH WE NEED IT THE MOST.

MAKING SURE THAT WE CAN RAMP UP THE PRODUCTION OF THE VACCINE, DISTRIBUTION, AND QUICK DISTRIBUTION, SO THAT IT CAN ACTUALLY GET INTO COMMUNITIES IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND MAKING SURE THAT STATES AND LOCALITIES HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND FINANCING TO DELIVER AND EXECUTE VACCINATIONS IN STATES AND LOCAL COMMUNITIES.

ON THE STATE AND LOCAL COMMUNITIES PARTICULARLY AS WE SEE IN NEW YORK, WE KNOW THE COMMUNITIES, WHICH ARE PRIMARILY COMMUNITIES OF COLOR THAT HAVE ALREADY HAD A DEFICIT IN TERMS OF HEALTH CARE INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH ACTUALLY MADE IT RIPE FOR A FOND SPREAD, AND WE SAW THAT WAS HARDEST KNIT OUR COMMUNITY.

WE HAVE THE ISSUE OF DISTRUST, WHICH PEOPLE TRUSTING THE VACCINE, TRUSTING THE SYSTEM, AND WE ALSO HAVE A FAILURE IN TERMS OF EXECUTION AND DELIVERY OF THE VACCINE.

SO AS I MENTIONED.

WE DIDN'T LEARN FROM THE TESTING PHASE.

DURING THE TESTING PHASE, INPAR IN THE CITY.

THERE WAS A DIFFICULT TIME GETTING TESTED EVEN IN THE CITIES HARDEST HIT.

PRIMARILY PART BECAUSE OF INFRASTRUCTURE WAS BROKE AND THE CITY AND STATE DIDN'T INVEST INTO ALREADY EXISTING IF NOT LITTLE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT EXISTED.

WHY SET UP WHOLE NEW LOCATIONS WITHOUT ALSO ENGAGING PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS IN THESE COMMUNITIES FOR THEM TO ACTUALLY HAVE ACTION TO TESTING SO THAT PEOPLE COULD GO TO A PLACE THEY TRUST WITH A DOCTOR THAT THEY TRUST AND MEDICAL STAFF THEY CAN TRUST?

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN DURING THE TESTING PHASE AND WE DIDN'T LEARN FROM IT AND IT'S NOT HAPPENING IN THE VACCINE PHASE IN TERMS OF PRIMARY DOCTORS AND FACILITIES HAVING ACCESS TO VACCINES.

AND WHICH REALLY CLICKED, MY GRANDMOTHER IS 94, PRIMARY CARE FOR HER, I'VE TAKEN HER OUT OF THE HOUSE THREE TIMES DURING THIS PANDEMIC AND ALL FOR DOCTORS' APPOINTMENTS.

DURING THAT TIME HER FIRST TIME BEING ABLE TO GET A TEST WITH A DOCTOR'S OFFICE WAS TWO MONTHS AGO, BECAUSE THEY JUST GOT ACCESS TO TESTING.

THAT'S HER PRIMARY CARE PROVIDER'S NOW, IMAGINE AT 94 HOW MANY TIMES WOULD YOU BRING, YOU KNOW, YOUR 94-YEAR-OLD OR YOUR SENIOR PEOPLE OUTSIDE DURING A PANDEMIC?

WE SHOULD FOCUS ON THE AREAS WHERE THEY TRUST.

WHERE THERE'S ALREADY AN INFRASTRUCTURE AND MAKING SURE THAT THAT MEDICAL TEAM HAS A TEST AND ALSO THE VACCINE NAP WOULD GO A LONG WAY.

LASTLY, WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUE OF TRUST IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR AS PERTAINS TO VACCINES, MAKING SURE -- NOT JUST WISH IT AWAY AND TELL PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, OH, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE BEING SILLY, OR THIS IS NOT SOMETHING OF CONCERN.

WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH PEOPLE'S REAL CONCERNS.

GIVE THEM THE INFORMATION, FROM TRUSTED PARTNERS AND COMMUNITY LEADERS, AND IN ORDER FOR THEM TO MAKE THE DECISION TO TAKE THE VACCINE.

>> OF COURSE.

JENNIFER, I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE YOU OUT OF THIS CONVERSATION.

BRING YOU IN.

JUST ABOUT SO MUCH OF WHAT YEAR SEEING FROM GOVERNMENT, ALL LEVELS, SORT OF BUILDING THE BOAT AS WE'RE SAILING IT.

FROM YPERSPECTIVE WHAT DO YOU SE AS BEING THE MOST CRITICAL THING THAT AT LEAST NEEDS TO BE DONE TO MAKE THIS ROLLOUT MORE EQUITABLE FOR ALL NEW YORKERS?

>> WELL, IT'S INTERESTING.

I THINK JOSEPH AND ELJOY, REALLY, HIT THE PROBLEMS WITH WHAT'S HAPPENED AND WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

ONE ISSUE I'M THINKING OF IN TERMS OF LEGAL IS ENFORCEMENT.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE LYING ON THE FORMS TO GET THEIR VACCINE.

THE FAMOUS CASE OF THE FULL CYCLE INSTRUCTOR SAID HE WAS AN EDUCATOR TO GET VACCINATED.

MY QUESTION, THIS IS NOTHING THAT SHOULD TAKE GOVERNMENT ATTENTION RIGHT NOW FROM GETTING THIS INTO THE RIGHT PEOPLE'S ARMS, BUT ARE THEY GOING TO BE DOING ANY ENFORCEMENT AROUND MAKING SURE THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIE UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY IN ORDER TO GET THE VACCINE MAY SEE SOME SORT OF PUNISHMENT?

THAT'S SOMETHING FOR DOWN THE ROAD, BUT LISTEN, IF YOU WANT TO DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM BEHAVES THAT WAY IN THE FUTURE, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE THIS GENERAL DETERRENCE NAECT OUR CRIMINAL LAWS ARE PARTLY ABOUT, YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO BE ENFORCING THINGS LIKE THAT.

YOU SET THEM UP, YOU SHOULD ENFORCE THEM.

>> AND BACK TO PELJOY OR JOSEPH.

DOES THAT SEEM A HELPFUL TOOL IN THE WAREHOUSE TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM JUMPING IN LINE OR BUTTING PEOPLE OUT OF THE WAY, EVEN THOUGH SO MANY THINGS SEEM CHAOTIC IN THIS ROLLOUT?

JOSEPH, START WITH YOU.

>> I MEAN, I THINK FOR ME, YOU KNOW, THERE'S LOOKING FORWARD, HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE EQUITY?

I THINK THAT EQUITY STARTS WITH ACCOUNTABILITY.

FROM THAT STANDPOINT WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE KNOW THAT YOU CAN'T JUST MAKE DECISIONS AND PRIORITIZE YOURSELF OVER OTHER PEOPLE AND THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THAT.

I THINK IN THE BROADER CONTEXT I THINK RIGHT NOW TO ELJOY'S POINT, WE JUST CAN'T ASSUME THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR WORD FOR IT.

I THINK THAT IF THE ERA OF TRUMP HAS TAUGHT US ANYTHING, IT'S THIS NOTION OF DISMISSING THE CONCERNS OF OUR NEIGHBOR.

THIS NOTION THAT SOMEHOW THAT, OH, WELL, WHAT HAPPENED WITH TUSKEGEE WAS EONS AGO.

BLACK PEOPLE SHOULD UNILATERALLY DECIDE THEY'RE GOING TO TRUST THE GOVERNMENT AND TRUST THE SCIENCE, AS IF WE SHOULD DISMISS THE FACT THAT THERE ARE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT WHETHER WE HAD ENOUGH PEOPLE WHO ARE MINORITIES PARTICIPATING IN THESE CLINICAL TRY TRIALS AND IT HAPPENED AT A RECORD PACE.

WE HAVE NEVER SEEN A VACCINE DEVELOP IN SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

LONG-TERM IMPACTS WE DON'T KNOW.

THAT DOES NOT PEOPLE SHOULDN'T SAKE THE VACCINE BUT IT MEANS WE AS A SOCIETY SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT WE ARE IN AN UNCERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME AND ANSWER PEOPLE'S QUESTIONS WITH EARNEST, EVEN IF THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS, WE DO NOT KNOW.

I THINK THAT IF WE CAN JUST COME TO PEOPLE AND TELL THEM THE TRUTH, THAT THAT WILL HAVE A LARGER IMPACT ON GETTING PEOPLE TO COME TO THE TABLE AND WEIGH THEIR OPTIONS INSTEAD OF TURNING UP THEIR NOSE AT THE SITUATION OR WALKING AWAY AND NOT ENGAGING.

I THINK IF THERE'S ONE THING WE CAN DO AS A SOCIETY MOVING FORWARD, IT'S JUST SAYING THAT PEOPLE'S CONCERNS ARE NOT STUPID, THEY ARE NOT UNFOUNDED.

PEOPLE ARE NOT EVIL BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE VACCINE.

NOT EVIL BECAUSE THEY VOTED FOR SOMEBODY THAT I DID NOT VOTE FOR.

THEY DID SO OUT OF AN EARNEST DESIRE OF SELF-PRESERVATION.

IF WE CAN WALK IN ANOTHER PERSON'S SHOES AND JUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT PEOPLE'S CONCERNS ARE FOUNDED ON THEIR OWN LIVED EXPERIENCE, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD HAVE A GREAT IMPACT NOT JUST ON HOW WE DEAL WITH COVID BUT I THINK ON HOW WE ACTUALLY COME BACK TOGETHER, OR AT LEAST START COMING TOGETHER, AS A SOCIETY THAT SAYS, WE ARE GOING TO BE IN PURSUIT OF OUR BETTER ANGELS.

>> ELJOY, A MINUTE AND A HALF LEFT.

THE LAST FEW WORDS ON WHAT IT IS THAT AT LEAST THE NEW YORK COMMUNITY, NEW YORK SOCIETY CAN DO, TO BETTER THIS AT LEAST VACCINATION PROCESS SO THAT MORE PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO BE VACCINATED, BE PROTECTED?

>> YEAH.

WELL YOU KNOW, AS I MENTIONED IN RESPONSE BEFORE.

I THINK WE NEED TO PRIORITIZE THE COMMUNITIES AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THOSE COMMUNITIES THAT CAN HELP GET PEOPLE VACCINATED AND PEOPLE EDUCATED TO MAKE THE DECISION THEMSELVES.

ON THE ISSUE OF ACCOUNTABILITY, FAR BE IT FOR ME TO BELIEVES WE CRIMINALIZE WAY TOO MUCH TO SUGGEST THAT THERE SHOULD BE A CRIMINAL -- CRIMINALIZING PEOPLE IN TERMS OF THAT JUMPING THE LINE.

BUT AS SOMEONE ALSO KNOWS THAT WE LOVE FINING THE HECK OUT OF POOR PEOPLE, FINING THE HECK OUT OF WEALTHY PEOPLE WHO JUMP THE LINE CERTAINLY IS A MEASURE OF ACCOUNTABILITY AS WELL.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, WITH THAT, WE'VE COME TO THE END OF YET ANOTHER "METROFOCUS" MONDAY MORNING ROUNDTABLE.

I WANT TO THANK ALL OF MY GUESTS.

JENNIFER RODGERS, A ADJUNCT PROFESSOR AT NYU LAW SCHOOL AND FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR.

PELL JOY WILLIAMS, PRESIDENT OF THE NAACP BROOKLYN SENIOR ADVISER FOR RAY MAGUIRE'S MAY AREAL CAMPAIGN AND OF COURSE, A BOARD MEMBER HIGHER HEIGHTS FOR AMERICA WORKING TO EXPAND THE POLITICAL POWER OF BLACK WOMEN, AND THANK YOU TO OUR REGULAR GUEST A REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, CHAIR OF THE CONSERVATIVE COLOR COALITION AND HOST OF "NEWS MAX'S SATURDAY AY JEND DAGENDA."

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING ME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY.

JUDY AND JOSH WESTON DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.