AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "News Hour" tonight: President Trump says he doesn't know whether immigrants should be given due process.

What the Constitution says about citizens and noncitizens alike.

AMNA NAWAZ: Israel approves expanded military operations in Gaza, a shift that could end with reoccupation of the strip.

DAVID MAKOVSKY, Washington Institute for Near East Policy: It's clear what the objective is.

The question is also, what are the costs and does it fit into a wider post-conflict strategy?

And that's where it's less certain.

GEOFF BENNETT: And music mogul Sean "Diddy" Combs appears in court for the start of his trial on charges of sex trafficking and racketeering.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

Over the last few days, President Trump has repeatedly questioned the right to due process, a fundamental right guaranteed by the Constitution that protects people against arbitrary government actions.

AMNA NAWAZ: The president's attacks come as the courts increasingly warn that the president is exceeding the scope of his authority.

Our White House correspondent, Laura Barron-Lopez, has this report.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: At an event today announcing Washington, D.C., as the host city for the 2027 NFL draft, President Trump again doubted the need for due process under the Constitution.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: It's a very difficult thing with the courts, because the courts have all of a sudden, out of nowhere, they said, maybe you have to have trials, trials.

We're going to have five million trials?

It doesn't work.

It doesn't work.

You wouldn't have a country left.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Ramping up its pressure campaign today to get undocumented immigrants to flee the U.S., the Homeland Security Department said they will pay people $1,000 if they self-deport to their home country voluntarily.

DONALD TRUMP: What we thought we'd do is a self-deport, where we're going to pay each one a certain amount of money.

And we're going to get them a beautiful flight back to where they came from.

And they have a period of time.

And if they make it, we're going to work with them so that maybe someday with a little work they can come back in, if they're good people.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: The administration said it will also pay for travel assistance and de-prioritize removal by ICE for those who use the CBP Home app to say they are leaving.

On Sunday, in an interview on "Meet the Press" with Kristen Welker, the president questioned whether he had to uphold the Constitution.

KRISTEN WELKER, Moderator, "Meet the Press": Your secretary of state says everyone who's here, citizens and noncitizens, deserve due process.

Do you agree, Mr. President?

DONALD TRUMP: I don't know.

I'm not a lawyer.

I don't know.

KRISTEN WELKER: Well, the Fifth Amendment says as much.

DONALD TRUMP: I don't know.

It seems -- it seems -- it might say that, but if you're talking about that, then we'd have to have a million or two million or three million trials.

KRISTEN WELKER: But, even given those numbers that you're talking about, don't you need to uphold the Constitution of the United States as president?

DONALD TRUMP: I don't know.

I have to respond by saying again, I have brilliant lawyers that work for me, and they are going to obviously follow what the Supreme Court said.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Welker also asked the president if he was OK with a recession in the short term to reach his goals.

DONALD TRUMP: Look, yes, everything's OK. What we are -- I said, this is a transition period.

I think we're going to do fantastically.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Trump posted a slew of social media posts over the weekend, from an A.I.-generated image of himself as the pope to directing the Federal Bureau of Prisons to reopen and expand Alcatraz.

Another new idea, a 100 percent tariff on movies that aren't produced in the United States.

It's unclear which films this could apply to.

And, today, the White House said no final decisions have been made.

Meanwhile, Democrats are zeroing in on Trump's economic policy.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Donald Trump and House Republicans are crashing the economy in real time.

I think we were promised, what, a golden age in the United States of America, not a recession.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: On the president's agenda tonight, a fund-raiser celebrating cryptocurrency as his family rakes in billions from crypto products.

The event costs $1.5 million per person and will benefit the MAGA Inc. pro-Trump super PAC.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Laura Barron-Lopez.

AMNA NAWAZ: For more on how the Trump administration is approaching due process and other rights granted under the Constitution, I'm joined now by Steve Vladeck, a constitutional law professor at Georgetown University.

Steve, great to see you.

Thanks for joining us.

Let me ask you about the part of the interview in which President Trump is asked if he should uphold the Constitution.

In the first part of his answer, he says, "I don't know."

What do you make of that response?

Is it the duty of the presidency to uphold the Constitution, or is that open to interpretation?

STEVE VLADECK, Georgetown University Law Center: It's not open to interpretation, Amna.

I mean, the president has taken the same oath twice, once in 2017 and once just 3.5 months ago.

It's only 35 words.

I suspect he probably knows some of it.

And it ends with him saying that he will affirm, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.

That's his job.

And maybe there are questions that can be debated in the courts, but whether the due process clause protects people is not a question.

It literally says that it does.

The Supreme Court has said it applies to anyone in the United States for more than 100 years now.

AMNA NAWAZ: Let me ask you about the argument being made by the White House, because, on this issue of due process, the White House deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller, posted this online today.

He wrote: "The right of due process is to protect citizens from their government, not to protect foreign trespassers from removal.

Due process guarantees the rights of a criminal defendant facing prosecution, not an illegal alien facing deportation."

So, Steve, does the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment extend to citizens and noncitizens alike?

STEVE VLADECK: So it does.

I mean, again, the text says, no person, not no citizen.

The Supreme Court has been clear for decades that that includes individuals who are here out of status who are undocumented.

And, Amna, I mean, the other point is, even if you accept the premise of what Stephen Miller is saying, even if we accept, for the sake of argument, that undocumented immigrants are not protected by the due process clause, how do we know that individuals the federal government points the finger at and says, oh, they're an undocumented immigrant actually is?

The answer is due process.

Due process is what allows the government to take extreme actions against us, with the faith that we are who the government says we are, with the faith that we actually fall into the category of people who can be arrested, who can be deported, who can be imprisoned.

Without due process, then we're not living under the rule of law.

We're living under the arbitrary whims of one person.

AMNA NAWAZ: A lot of the due process questions center on the case of a man we have talked about a lot, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was wrongly deported to El Salvador.

The president was asked if he is defying Supreme Court orders to facilitate Garcia's return.

And the president said that his attorney general, his Department of Justice, they don't view it that way at all.

So, Steve, if his lawyers are telling him that what he's doing is fine and defensible and legal, why shouldn't the president listen to them?

STEVE VLADECK: Well, I think there are two different things going on here.

I mean, the first is, I'm not sure that his lawyers are actually telling him what the courts are telling them.

We're seeing both in the hearing in the Abrego Garcia case and in the case of the other individual who a different federal judge in Maryland has ordered to be returned, we're seeing the courts say, hey, we want you, government, to tell us what steps you have taken.

Meanwhile, we have President Trump in public interviews saying he hasn't even been asked by the lawyers to request from President Bukele that someone like Abrego Garcia be returned.

So, Amna, part of what's happening here is a shell game, where the president's saying one set of things publicly, where government lawyers are saying something else in court, and where there's some disconnect in between.

And what gets lost in the process is that there are not just these two folks who are still in detention and El Salvador, but upwards of 150 to 175 who were removed from the country back in March under the Alien Enemy act, which now we have multiple lower courts saying the government didn't have the power to do.

So we have this tension between a president saying, I have done everything I'm supposed to do, and federal court saying, no, you haven't.

And I think we're still in the middle of this story.

We're still going to have to see, when this goes back to the Supreme Court, which seems inevitable, are the justices going to require more than just these sort of ambiguous steps toward facilitating the release of these individuals from El Salvador?

AMNA NAWAZ: So, Steve, the president mentioned deferring to his lawyers.

He mentioned not being a lawyer himself five separate times in this latest interview on NBC.

What does all of this tell you, in the minute or so we have left, about the role of the White House counsel, the attorney general, the Department of Justice in this administration?

STEVE VLADECK: I think part of what we're seeing now is something that looks like this, where the president's saying, I'm not a lawyer, and where the lawyers are saying, we just work for the president.

It's an effort, I think, on the part of both of these sets of individuals to deflect accountability.

And, at the end of the day, Amna, if the government's going to rely upon this idea that the president is the unitary head of the executive branch, that everyone and everything is supposed to be working for him, that the Justice Department is not our lawyers, they're the president's lawyers, it seems like he can't, in the same breath, deny responsibility, defer accountability, when a government in his name, when lawyers representing him are breaking the law.

And I think that's what we're going to see develop in the federal courts in the days and weeks to come.

At some point, the rubber's going to hit the road.

And I think the president's not going to be able to play so fast and loose with his responsibilities going forward.

AMNA NAWAZ: Steve Vladeck of Georgetown University, thank you so much for your time.

Always good to speak with you.

STEVE VLADECK: You too.

Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: We start the day's other headlines at Newark Airport outside New York City, where hundreds of flights were either canceled or delayed again today, causing headaches for many fliers.

WOMAN: I don't know how you can operate.

This is such a major airport.

GEOFF BENNETT: Major disruptions have now carried into a second week amid ongoing staffing shortages and equipment problems.

One of the airport's runways is also under construction.

United Airlines says it will begin cutting about 10 percent of its flights from the busy travel hub.

New York Senator Chuck Schumer today called for an investigation of the FAA's handling of the situation at Newark and across the country.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): To say that there is just minor turbulence at Newark Airport and the FAA, that would be the understatement of the year.

We're here because the FAA is really a mess.

This mess needs a real forensic look, a deep look into it.

GEOFF BENNETT: Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy says his agency will announce plans this week to overhaul the nation's outdated air traffic control infrastructure.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is ordering major cuts to top positions within the U.S. military.

In a memo obtained by the "News Hour," Hegseth called for a 20 percent reduction of four-star generals across the active-duty military.

He also ordered the National Guard to cut 20 percent of its top positions.

The memo further directs the military to trim an additional 10 percent of its general and flag officers across the force.

There are currently about 800 general officers in the military.

Only 44 of those are four-star general or flag officers.

As of today, federal education officials are restarting efforts to collect on student loans that are in default.

Borrowers had enjoyed a pause on such collections that started during the COVID pandemic.

More than five million people are currently in default.

The Trump administration says that could swell to nearly 10 million within a few months.

Officials could withhold tax refunds or Social Security benefits and garnish wages to recover the debt that is owed.

Those who are in default are urged to contact the Default Resolution Group within the Office of Federal Student Aid.

In Upstate New York, a corrections officer pleaded guilty today to manslaughter in the fatal beating of a handcuffed inmate.

Christopher Walrath was one of six guards charged with second-degree murder.

Body cameras recorded the attack on Robert Brooks at the Marcy Correctional Facility in December.

The special prosecutor says Brooks was transferred to the prison that day and that the beating was -- quote -- "to welcome him."

The plea deal calls for Walrath to get a 15-year prison term.

He will be sentenced in August.

Romania's prime minister announced his resignation today after his party's candidate failed to advance in a redo of the country's presidential election.

Hard-right nationalist George Simion far outpaced the other contenders, winning more than 40 percent of Sunday's vote.

He will face pro-Western reformist Nicusor Dan in a run-off later this month.

Simion ran on a nationalist platform and is a vocal supporter of President Trump.

He thanked his backers in a social media video today.

GEORGE SIMION, Romanian Presidential Candidate (through translator): Your thirst for freedom has triumphed.

It is your victory, not mine, and it will continue to triumph.

Your vote today is an outstretched hand to the country you miss.

The Romania you want to return to, we will build together.

GEOFF BENNETT: The election redo could have wide-ranging implications for the direction of the NATO and E.U.

member.

It comes after a court voided last year's election amid allegations of Russian interference, which Moscow denies.

On Wall Street today, stocks slipped amid ongoing concerns over President Trump's tariff and global trade.

The Dow Jones industrial average fell nearly 100 points to start the week.

The Nasdaq dropped around 130 points, or three-quarters of 1 percent.

The S&P 500 also ended in negative territory.

And Skype officially goes offline today.

For more than two decades, the Internet calling service connected people from around the world.

At one point it had more than 300 million users, but competition from the likes of zoom and WhatsApp ate into Skype's popularity.

Microsoft, which bought the company back in 2011, announced in March that it was shutting Skype and is urging users to migrate to its Teams offering.

Skype for Business, which is a separate service, will carry on.

Still, it's the end of an era.

And today is, of course, Cinco de Mayo, a celebration of Mexican history and culture.

Festivities are taking place across the country, including at this school in Dallas, Texas, where children got into the spirit of things with sombreros and pinatas.

Since, this year, Cinco de Mayo fell on a Monday, many chose to celebrate this past weekend with parades and other festivities.

Cinco de Mayo is a holiday in Mexico, where it marks the anniversary of a Mexican military victory in 1862 over French forces.

President Trump, for his part, marked the occasion by reposting a tweet from 2016 of him enjoying a taco bowl at Trump Tower.

The caption, "This was so wonderful nine years ago today."

And still to come on the "News Hour": Amy Walter and Tamara Keith on this week's political headlines; a new book explores the next phase in the battle over reproductive rights; and Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter Sierra Hull on her journey to becoming a mandolin virtuoso.

The Israeli government voted today to expand its military operations in Gaza, a plan that could end with the reoccupation of the Strip nearly 20 years after Israel ended its occupation there.

Meantime, humanitarian officials warn an Israeli plan to take over aid distribution in Gaza is unworkable and more Palestinians will suffer.

Israel has blocked all aid from entering for over two months now.

Here's Nick Schifrin.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In the shadow of Gaza today, Israel has its eyes on a bigger prize.

Tens of thousands of reservists are mobilizing to execute a new plan that calls for Israeli troops to clear large parts of Gaza and hold captured territory, says spokesman David Mencer.

DAVID MENCER, Spokesperson, Israeli Prime Minister's Office: The expanding and the holding of territories, not occupation, the expanding and holding of territories and remaining in them to prevent Hamas from taking it back.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The plan was unanimously approved overnight by the Israeli Cabinet, including far right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich.

BEZALEL SMOTRICH, Israeli Finance Minister (through translator): We are finally going to conquer the Gaza Strip.

We are no longer afraid of the word occupation.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Today, Israel is believed to control about one-third of Gaza, with an expanded buffer zone along the Gaza border and two corridors that bisect Gaza.

The new plan calls for Israeli troops to move the population of Northern Gaza to the south to what Army spokesman General Effie Defrin today called a -- quote -- "sterile area."

BRIG.

GEN. EFFIE DEFRIN, Israeli Defense Forces Spokesperson (through translator): The operation will include a broad offensive that includes moving a majority of the population of the Gaza Strip.

This is in order to protect it in a sterile area from Hamas.

We will repeat the model carried out in Rafah in other areas of the Gaza Strip.

NICK SCHIFRIN: After Israel's operation last year, this is what Rafah looked like.

Israeli officials say the new operation would take about two weeks to prepare, giving enough time for President Trump to travel to the Middle East and for presidential envoy Steve Witkoff to try and make a diplomatic deal to convince Hamas to release the living hostages among the nearly 60 it still holds.

The new plan also calls for Israel to take over the distribution of humanitarian aid after blocking all aid from entering Gaza for the last two months.

That block has led to desperate scenes like these and to the frailty of 12-year-old Rahaf Ayyad.

Today, she is hungry, a fragile shadow of what she used to be.

RAHAF AYYAD, 12 Years Old (through translator): I was bright and fun, and now I'm not anymore, just like you see.

I wish I could eat meats.

I only eat bread and za'atar and rice only.

Her mother, Shorouq, doesn't know what to do, and says the food her daughter needs is either unavailable or unaffordable.

SHOROUQ AYYAD, Mother of Rahaf Ayyad (through translator): Our children are dying in front of us, and we cannot do anything to help.

Right now, Rahaf only eats rice because the legumes hurt her stomach.

I can only afford rice.

That's all.

Everything here is so expensive.

They told me to get her fruits, vegetables, honey.

God knows, I'm trying my best.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Israel argues it needs to take over aid distribution because Hamas steals it to buy weapons.

And Israel says there is food in the markets.

DAVID MENCER: Israel's assessment is that, for months to come, there is enough food for everyone right now.

TOM FLETCHER, United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator: That runs contrary to international law, and the reality is that we're seeing every day kids are starving as a result.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Tom Fletcher is the U.N.'s top humanitarian official, who last visited Gaza earlier this year during a cease-fire, when 600 to 700 trucks of aid entered every day.

TOM FLETCHER: We were saving so many of the survivors of the military onslaught there.

And now we have gone two months.

Blocking aid kills.

It strips people of dignity.

It removes their medical support.

It removes the food from their mouths.

And two months is a long, long time.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Israeli officials I talked to argue that Hamas has been using the aid, even since the cease-fire, to perpetuate their rule and they convert the aid into military capacity in order to maintain their control over Gaza.

What's your response to that?

TOM FLETCHER: The aid I saw being delivered was medicines going straight into hospitals.

It was food going straight to families who needed it, to communities who needed it so badly.

We were opening up wells, so people at least had access to a water source.

I didn't see Hamas getting anywhere near any of that.

It's a brutal way to collectively punish a whole population for the crimes of Hamas.

NICK SCHIFRIN: To understand the implications of the new Israeli plan and how it's being received in Israel, I'm joined by David Makovsky, the director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy's Project on Arab-Israel Relations.

David Makovsky, thanks very much.

Welcome to the "News Hour."

You heard the spokesman of the Israeli government in that story saying this is not occupation, this is clearing and holding.

But we also heard from the right-wing finance minister, Smotrich, saying, this is reoccupation.

So, as far as you can tell, what is it that the Israeli government hopes to achieve?

DAVID MAKOVSKY, Washington Institute for Near East Policy: I think they haven't decided yet how long they're going to stay.

Their goal is to disarm Hamas.

They have been at this impasse for a while now.

I was just over there.

I literally talked to dozens of people, and this was the centerpiece, that this was something they were going to do.

And it's clear what the objective is.

The question is also, what are the costs and does it fit into a wider post-conflict strategy?

And that's where it's less certain.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Could this be pressure?

Could this be a feint to try and get Hamas to make some kind of deal just in the next week or two that would be much closer to Israel's desire for them to release all the hostages up front, than actually go in with tens of thousands of additional troops and possibly reoccupy?

DAVID MAKOVSKY: I asked that question when I was over there, and they said, all we want is Witkoff, call it.

Witkoff was this idea of... NICK SCHIFRIN: Steve Witkoff, the president's special envoy.

DAVID MAKOVSKY: Steve Witkoff, the president's special envoy, to get half of the remaining hostages who are alive -- officially, the number is 24 -- and to see if you get half of them out now.

But when you press and say OK, what about the remaining half and are you going to do this anyway, and they say well we're going to disarm Hamas anyway.

So I said, well, is it the equivalent of telling someone, I'm not going to kill you at 6:00, I'm going to kill you at 7:00, but I need your help at 6:00?

And then what's Hamas' incentive if you're going to kill them at 7:00 anyway?

So there's some tension between these objectives.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And the bottom line there, it reveals that Israeli officials today believe they can win this war on the battlefield.

DAVID MAKOVSKY: Yes.

I mean, the issue is always not just the first tactical successes, and they might be impressive, but it's to ensure that there's not an insurgency that emerges after you win on the battlefield.

So you always want to see how can you translate your battlefield success to something, an enduring achievement?

And that requires a day after strategy as well.

NICK SCHIFRIN: So let's talk about that.

I talked to one of the protest leaders today who didn't want to go on camera, but said this to me today -- quote -- "There is no clear objective or coherent plan for the day after, and that is why some Israelis are questioning this today."

Do you agree?

Is there a day-after plan?

DAVID MAKOVSKY: No, because there's division within the Cabinet.

It's clear that the hard-right faction of Mr. Smotrich that you mentioned, and Mr. Ben-Gvir, they clearly want Israel to go there to stay, to have settlements and all that.

The military establishment is horrified by this idea.

Their job is to focus on disarming Hamas.

I would think President Trump could reconcile a lot of this by saying, Hamas, if you leave with your weapons, go into exile, and they're disarmed, we will make sure Israel leaves Gaza the next day and bring back the Palestinian Authority.

We know all the vulnerabilities of the Palestinian Authority that's based in the West Bank, but at least there would be a sense that Palestinians would be taking over Gaza, and I think that would be something that the Israeli people themselves, maybe including the gentlemen that you mentioned, could also get behind.

They all wanted to disarm Hamas, but they also want to get the hostages out, and they don't want to stay in Gaza.

They left in 2005, and they would, I think, turn it over to someone as long as they can feel that they're going to feel safe.

And right now the government has not tried to answer that question.

NICK SCHIFRIN: We have also seen reservists not showing up in numbers much higher than in the past.

Do we know how Israeli society, do we know how the reservists, the tens of thousands of reservists who are being called up, will respond to this?

DAVID MAKOVSKY: I think the head of the IDF Manpower appeared this morning at the Knesset, one of the panel's committees... ... and already said that 25 percent of the people were not showing up.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And that's a huge number.

DAVID MAKOVSKY: That's a huge number.

That number is likely to grow, if only for fatigue.

I mean, some of these people are doing 200, 300, 400 days of reserve duty since October the 7th.

And then you're going to have people questioning the wisdom of the whole approach, saying, you're dooming the hostages if there's going to be renewed fighting.

So you're going to have the fatigue factor and then something we have not seen until now, which is an ideological objection, because, when it came after October 7, reserve duty call-up rates, it was 130 percent of the people showed up, more than they needed.

And now I think we're going to look at these rates and see something different.

NICK SCHIFRIN: David Makovsky, thank you very much.

DAVID MAKOVSKY: Glad to be with you.

AMNA NAWAZ: President Trump has given multiple lengthy interviews in recent days, and they have sparked as many questions as they have answers.

Our Politics Monday team is here to separate the substance from the noise.

That's Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report With Amy Walter and Tamara Keith of NPR.

Great to see you both.

TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: Good to be here.

AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: Hello.

AMNA NAWAZ: So we have been talking about, I know you have been following, there's a common thread in the president's recent interviews, just the number of times he references his lawyers, right, Tam, when he's asked about people who were deported or rescinding federal payments or whether he's going to run for a third term.

He says, I'm listening to my lawyers.

How much of this presidency relies on the interpretation of the lawyers around this president?

TAMARA KEITH: Yes, President Trump has long talked about his lawyers when he was out of office, when he's in office.

He's all about a stable of lawyers.

The interesting thing about him is that he considers the lawyers of the Justice Department also to be his lawyers, which is not actually the role of the Justice Department in a traditional administration.

He both wants arm's length and doesn't want arm's length depending on what he wants at any given moment.

But you have to remember that members of his administration, people who are around him now, they're not necessarily lawyers, but they spent the entire four years out of office thinking about new and different ways to push the boundaries of executive power, to use the laws that exist in novel ways to get what they wanted that they weren't able to do in the first administration.

And President Trump is someone who likes to be powerful and wants to try these things.

It is clear that his administration is trying many things that other presidents simply haven't tried, including former President Trump.

AMNA NAWAZ: Amy, when you look at this issue of due process, upholding the Constitution, are these the kinds of things that resonate with the electorate?

AMY WALTER: I think with certain parts of the electorate, yes.

But for those who are not paying as much attention to politics, what they're paying attention to is the impact of politics on their day-to-day lives.

These seem still very much like the kind of thing that would be on an exam in school much more than its impact on the lives that they're living.

On issues like the economy, on tariffs, they are very much keyed in on that.

On these issues, especially among people who, as I said, they're not necessarily seeking out news, those issues tend to be less resonant.

AMNA NAWAZ: And I know the economy, of course, was the number one issue for voters when they voted for President Trump.

He was asked about the economy and really who owns this moment in time for the American economy in that NBC interview.

Here's what the president had to say.

KRISTEN WELKER, Moderator, "Meet the Press": When does it become the Trump economy?

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: It partially is right now, and I really mean this.

I think the good parts of the Trump economy and the bad parts of the Biden economy.

AMNA NAWAZ: Amy, over 100 days in, do the American people see it as a Biden economy or a Trump economy?

AMY WALTER: Well, in the polling done for NPR and PBS by Marist, no, they do see that this is really Trump's economy.

When asked the question about who do you think is responsible, 60 percent said Trump and only 39 percent basically said that this is still the hangover from Biden's economy.

So it is pretty clear at this point that, when voters are looking at the direction of the economy, why things are the way they are, they do put a lot of the responsibility on Donald Trump.

What's fascinating to me, especially in that whole interview, was the amount of time that the president spent on defense, basically trying to convince not just his interviewer, Kristen Welker from NBC, but the entire audience, that the things that they say they don't like, because we see in poll after poll, people say, we don't like tariffs, we don't think tariffs are good.

We think tariffs are a tax.

What he spent most of the time doing in that interview was convince -- trying to convince them that they are wrong and he is right.

What they are seeing or feeling or anxious about is not where things are.

And that, I think, is going to be the biggest challenge going forward because, Amna, as you very well know, the impact of tariffs has yet to really hit.

AMNA NAWAZ: Right.

AMY WALTER: Because these shipments that are not coming from China are going to start to hit us... AMNA NAWAZ: Yes, there is a lag.

AMY WALTER: ... May and June.

The lag, yes.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, Tam, as you know, from the messaging perspective of this White House, the president is trying to convince people he's on top of the economy.

At the same time, he posted that gas is down to $1.98 a gallon, which it is not.

We checked.

And my colleague Kyle Midura found it's $3.12 a gallon.

That's the average price nationwide.

The lowest we could find anywhere was $2.19 at a station in Mississippi.

What does this tell you about the president?

Is he getting bad information or does he not know?

TAMARA KEITH: He could be talking about wholesale prices.

But let's just be clear.

When it comes to numbers in President Trump, he is often untethered from reality.

I will just give another example, egg prices.

And we should say, gas prices are coming down, just not as much as he says.

Same with eggs.

Egg prices, wholesale egg prices are down.

He says they're down 87 percent.

Last week, his own White House put out a memo and said it was around 50 percent, his own White House.

So President Trump and numbers are often a very loose relationship.

AMNA NAWAZ: As you guys know, we try to focus the conversation around the biggest headlines every week, but there's a lot of things we hear from the White House, Tam, that we just can't give more attention to because of the pure volume.

A couple of examples just from yesterday, the president last night posted on TRUTH Social, "Rebuild and open Alcatraz,' referring to the prison island that's been shuttered for over 60 years.

Also yesterday, he announced there's going to be 100 percent tariff on movies made outside of the United States, describing it as a national security threat.

How do you look at these messages?

Should we take them seriously or are they a distraction?

TAMARA KEITH: Well, "The Rock" was a really good movie about Alcatraz.

TAMARA KEITH: But other than that, President Trump has an incredible ability to generate attention.

And he markets himself.

He markets his ideas.

He gets people talking about him.

Whether these things become a reality or not, he has gotten a whole lot of airtime out of it.

And that's airtime not spent talking about concerns about tariffs or the price of dolls, which he says, well, maybe kids will just have to have fewer dolls.

AMY WALTER: Yes, and this is what I think we talked a lot about after 2024.

Democrats are still struggling with this idea that he can get in front of audiences that they can't.

And part of that is, when he talks about things like Alcatraz or the other issues, Greenland, et cetera, he is starting conversations in spaces that are not traditional media spaces, whether it's podcasts or YouTube channels.

And that keeps him in front of audiences that aren't necessarily keyed in on other issues and aren't watching the news as closely as some.

TAMARA KEITH: And these don't require a nuanced conversation.

It's just sort of -- it's ephemera and it can generate attention to the president.

AMNA NAWAZ: And we worked in a movie reference to "The Rock" as well.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, Tamara Keith, Amy Walter, always great to see you both.

Thank you.

TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome.

AMY WALTER: You're welcome.

GEOFF BENNETT: Jury selection for the criminal trial of music mogul Sean "Diddy" Combs started today in New York City.

The rapper and producer faces multiple charges, including racketeering, conspiracy and sex trafficking.

Prosecutor's alleged Combs was the mastermind behind a yearslong operation to sexually abuse women.

He denies any wrongdoing and rejected a plea deal that could have resulted in a lighter sentence.

He faces life in prison if convicted.

We're joined now by Gina Barton, investigative reporter for USA Today.

Thanks for being with us, Gina.

So jury selection started today.

What are you hearing from your colleagues in the courtroom about how hard it's going to be to find people to serve on this case?

GINA BARTON, USA Today: The judge has estimated that it'll only take three days to pick a jury, but from how slowly things are going, it may take longer.

They're interviewing each juror separately and individually.

They have 150 people that they called in.

One of them, they spoke to a single person for about 25 minutes.

So it could take quite a while to find 12 jurors and some alternates.

GEOFF BENNETT: And the complication is that there are very few people who don't know who he is or at least know something about this case?

GINA BARTON: There are so many people who know about the case, who are familiar with Sean "Puffy" Combs, who have seen the video of him allegedly attacking his former girlfriend Cassie in a hotel hallway.

And they're also asking jurors if they have ever been sexually assaulted or know anyone close to them who has been sexually assaulted, because they want jurors who are going to be objective and not have any thoughts about victimization coming in.

And, as you know, about 25 percent of women have had some sort of experience with sexual assault or sexual harassment.

So that's another challenge.

GEOFF BENNETT: His 17-page indictment, as I understand it, has been updated three times since September.

What federal charges is he facing as of now?

GINA BARTON: As of now, he's facing five different charges.

There is RICO, which is racketeering.

There's sex trafficking and then also bringing women across state lines for sex trafficking and for sexual exploitation and victimization.

So there are a couple of different charges under each of those umbrellas.

The important thing to point out is that the RICO charge, or the racketeering charge, also includes all sorts of other alleged conduct, arson, kidnapping, a whole bunch of other acts that could be considered crimes if he's found guilty.

GEOFF BENNETT: And who are the witnesses we're expecting the government to bring?

GINA BARTON: I think, for sure, we're going to see at least two women who are charging that Combs sexually assaulted them.

One of them would be his former girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, who we have talked about is seen in that video.

Another one we believe is Dawn Richard, who was on one of the seasons or a couple of the seasons of "Making the Band" on MTV.

And she was in a group called Danity Kane and also a trio called Diddy-Dirty Money.

She filed a pretty extensive civil suit against him.

And from what I'm reading in the criminal court documents, she's very likely to be a witness.

There are two -- going to be two other victims testifying.

We don't know their names yet, but I would assume that they are probably also going to be alleging some sort of sexual assault or abuse.

GEOFF BENNETT: And just last week, Sean Combs rejected a plea deal.

He says he's innocent.

What are we expecting the gist of the defense strategy to be?

GINA BARTON: From what we have been able to find out in reading through the court records and going to some of the hearings, I think the only defense that he will be able to present is consent, because he's got these women saying the sexual encounters happened.

They seized lots of video evidence from his homes.

So I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these incidents are on video.

And so all the experts I have talked to in the past week have said that his defense is likely going to be consent.

And then one of my colleagues who was in court for our hearing last week heard them talking about swingers.

So, it sounds like the defense might say that Sean "Puffy" Combs was involved in kind of an alternative, fringe sexual lifestyle with his girlfriends, trading partners, but that it was all consensual.

GEOFF BENNETT: Gina Barton, investigative reporter for USA Today.

Gina, thanks again for your time this evening.

We appreciate it.

GINA BARTON: Thanks for having me.

AMNA NAWAZ: After the Supreme Court overturned the landmark Roe v. Wade decision in 2022, the victory for anti-abortion advocates spurred the pursuit of a long-sought-after goal, fetal personhood.

That term is for legislation that asserts that life begins at fertilization and establishes constitutional protection for embryos and fetuses.

I spoke recently with law professor and historian Mary Ziegler about her new book, "Personhood: The New Civil War Over Reproduction."

Mary Ziegler, welcome back to the "News Hour."

Thanks for joining us.

MARY ZIEGLER, University of California, Davis, School of Law: Thanks for having me.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, in the book, you write that ending the constitutional right to an abortion was just the first step for this movement.

As you write it -- quote -- For the past 50 years, the priority of the anti-abortion movement has been the recognition of fetal rights," a goal, as you write, dates back to the 1960s.

Why is that the case?

What power does this hold?

MARY ZIEGLER: Well, I think the fight for fetal rights was compelling, of course, in practical terms, because ending the right to choose abortion has left us in a country where it's very difficult to enforce abortion bans.

It's also worth emphasizing that people in the anti-abortion movement are not focused solely on abortion.

They're also concerned about in vitro fertilization, about some forms of contraception, even about the way we reason about equality in the United States more broadly.

So the end of Roe v. Wade, I think, for the movement was really just the beginning.

AMNA NAWAZ: And definitions really matter here, because you know that, even within this anti-abortion movement, there's been some inconsistency.

As you write, there are disagreements about what personhood means.

So is there a consensus?

How would you define it?

If there's no consensus, what does that mean for what advocates are pushing for?

MARY ZIEGLER: Well, the common denominator is really a claim that, at the moment of fertilization, there is a separate, whole, unique human being, and that, as a result of this biological status, that person should have constitutional rights.

At the moment in the United States, there's a lot more debate about what it means to enforce that concept of personhood.

In other words, what does it mean to do justice to this fetus or unborn child?

The general consensus in the anti-abortion movement is that it requires, at the moment, some form of criminalization, whether criminalization of the person who performs an abortion, criminalization of people who assist in abortion, maybe criminalization of the disposition of embryos after IVF or even the storage of embryos after IVF.

But there's debate on the margins about almost everything else.

For example, one of the most prominent debates we have seen break out this year even is a debate about whether abortion seekers or women themselves should be punished for abortion.

There are disagreements about IVF too, disagreements about contraceptives too.

So what personhood actually requires in the real world, rather than kind of in more abstract terms being about who has rights, is something that we have seen really come to the fore now that fetal personhood is no longer a distant dream, but something the movement's trying to realize in the shorter term.

AMNA NAWAZ: And you do write about what you call one of the most promising paths of fetal personhood in Alabama.

That's where the state Supreme Court last year ruled that embryos created through in vitro fertilization, or IVF, were considered children.

Right after that ruling, though, state lawmakers jumped in to protect IVF providers because of how unpopular that state Supreme Court ruling was.

What did that whole episode reveal to you about this movement?

MARY ZIEGLER: Yes, I think the episode revealed something that I think personhood proponents have already recognized, which is that the best and most likely route that we're going to see fetal personhood succeed in the United States is through the courts, whether that's the federal courts and the conservative U.S. Supreme Court supermajority or state Supreme Courts like the Alabama Supreme Court.

Even when state Supreme Courts have elections, they tend to be more immune to the will of voters than -- certainly than state legislators or governors would be.

So there's been, I think, more of an effort to direct this question away from voters and to judges, who I think the anti-abortion movement believes will be more easy to persuade.

AMNA NAWAZ: You also write in the book about how the stakes here go well beyond abortion itself.

What did you mean by that?

MARY ZIEGLER: Well, I think there are two ways in which that's true.

One, of course, if an embryo or a fetus is a person, that will obviously have implications for lots of other things.

As we saw with the Alabama Supreme Court decision last year, it would radically -- recognizing an embryo or fetus as a person, if that requires criminalization or sanction, would have pretty considerable impacts on the way in vitro fertilization is practiced, making it much more expensive and less effective.

It would have impacts on, for example, whether stem cell research could continue.

It would also, I think, in a second way have important impacts on how we reason about equality and liberty generally.

So to get to the conclusion that a fetus or embryo is a person, anti-abortion lawyers have encouraged the courts to think differently about how we recognize fundamental rights, what we mean by constitutional equality.

And those kinds of changes would resonate well outside the context of reproduction in general, right?

So this is a mission that's, I think, been pursued in ways that could change how we think of the Constitution in many other ways.

AMNA NAWAZ: There's also some fascinating historical context in the book.

You write about how the early fetal personhood movement aligned itself with civil rights movements and how there was a group called Students for Life that actually held what they called a Black Preborn Lives Matter rally during the anti-racism protest after George Floyd's murder.

Has fetal personhood always been more of a conservative sort of cause?

MARY ZIEGLER: Well, not entirely, right?

So the anti-abortion movement has always been a big, complicated movement.

And particularly in the 1960s and '70s, really before Ronald Reagan ran for president, it wouldn't have been coherent to really describe the anti-abortion movement as purely conservative across the board.

Of course, most people in the anti-abortion movement had held conservative positions on social issues, not least abortion, but also including other issues related to it, like contraception or gay rights.

But the movement was much more politically diverse on a wide range of other issues.

Part of what we have seen in the United States is a transformation of the anti-abortion movement really since the 1980s.

And I think a closer and closer partnership between the GOP and the anti-abortion movement, between the anti-abortion movement and certain churches, and all of that I think has changed what abortion opponents often mean when they speak about personhood or at least created more fractures within the movement about that, that we see kind of coming to the fore now that Roe is gone.

AMNA NAWAZ: And, Mary, when you look at where we are today, in the years since Roe was overturned, and the numbers, as we track them, abortions have actually been steadily increasing.

And that's despite the fact that some dozen states or so have near-total bans.

So how does that happen?

MARY ZIEGLER: Well, I think it's very -- it's much easier to pass an abortion ban than to enforce an abortion ban, particularly in a country where states in other parts of the country offer legal abortion and where pills and people can travel across state lines.

So I think that's part of the reason we're still seeing so much pressure on the Trump administration to change the rules governing, for example, the abortion pill mifepristone or to enforce an old law called the Comstock Act as an abortion ban, or even to get some kind of federal judicial decision that could be used to crack down, because, as long as this remains a decision at the state level, there are going to be ways to circumvent bans for some people, and people who are committed enough to terminating a pregnancy will often find them.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is Mary Ziegler of U.C.

Davis, author of the new book "Personhood: The New Civil War Over Reproduction."

Mary, thank you so much.

Good to speak with you.

MARY ZIEGLER: Thanks for having me.

AMNA NAWAZ: And a late-breaking development on this topic tonight.

For the first time since President Trump reentered the White House, his administration asked a federal court to dismiss or move a lawsuit that seeks to roll back access to the common abortion drug mifepristone.

While not taking a position on the merits of the case or the drug itself, Trump's Department of Justice says the three states pursuing the lawsuit in a Texas court lack standing.

That is the same position the Biden administration argued.

GEOFF BENNETT: Two-time Grammy nominee Sierra Hull has reached the pinnacle of bluegrass on her chosen instrument, the mandolin.

Special correspondent Tom Casciato has the story of how she got there for our arts and culture series, Canvas.

TOM CASCIATO: On this night at The Hamilton in Washington, D.C., it's easy enough to hear why 33-year-old Sierra Hull has been six times named the International Bluegrass Association's mandolinist of the year.

Not as immediately clear is why "Rolling Stone" has termed her a rebel of the genre.

SIERRA HULL, Musician: Usually, I'm just kind of searching for sounds and going by feel and trying to write something that is satisfying.

TOM CASCIATO: And, indeed, she and her band are right at home with traditional bluegrass sounds.

But take the lead single from her latest album, "A Tip Toe High Wire."

It's a song called "Boom."

An American songwriter used a pretty non-bluegrassy term for it.

(SINGING) TOM CASCIATO: They called it funky.

SIERRA HULL: Funky?

All right.

I will take it.

TOM CASCIATO: I'm thinking, I wonder if Sierra Hull growing enough thought, someday, people are going to hear me and play the mandolin and say, well, that's funky.

SIERRA HULL: No, I probably wouldn't have thought about it, honestly.

TOM CASCIATO: But the song is kind of funky.

SIERRA HULL: It's kind of funky.

That's the beauty of where I have gotten to more than I would have imagined, just things, the opportunities that have come, unexpected things, because I was so lucky to have some things happen.

TOM CASCIATO: What's happened to sierra whole is extraordinary, though it started out pretty ordinary.

SIERRA HULL: We had one of those old bowlback mandolins.

TOM CASCIATO: Yes.

SIERRA HULL: We call them a tater bug where I'm from.

TOM CASCIATO: Where she's from is Byrdstown, Tennessee, population under 1,000.

SIERRA HULL: And I remember learning my first tune.

I just connected so deeply to that right away.

TOM CASCIATO: Were you good right away?

SIERRA HULL: I think it was a combination of having some natural ability, but also being fully obsessed to, where every day my dad would come home from work, he was teaching me what he knew at first, and then I was going to these bluegrass jams.

TOM CASCIATO: The jams took place at a community center, where local players would perform for crowds of 20 or 30.

SIERRA HULL: And I remember being super tiny and those local bands saying, do you want to get up here and play along with us?

I learned so much.

They weren't trying to go out and do it professionally.

They just loved it.

TOM CASCIATO: Who were you listening to at that time?

SIERRA HULL: Doyle Lawson and Quicksilver, some of those really harmony-based bluegrass Gospel albums.

Then my dad brought home a Tony Rice album called "Church Street Blues," and I remember just falling madly in love with that record.

It was a cassette tape, actually.

We used to drive around in his old Ford truck, and I remember the truck kind of ate the tape, and we were so devastated.

TOM CASCIATO: But there was one artist in particular who made the biggest impression.

SIERRA HULL: I got my first Alison Krauss album when I was 9 years old.

And that just kind of lit my world on fire.

And it made me go, this is what I want to do.

TOM CASCIATO: With Krauss as her inspiration, she buckled down and practiced and practiced.

SIERRA HULL: And I was lucky to have parents who breathed a lot of love and support into it.

If I'd ever get lazy practicing, I remember my dad saying: "You have been a little lazy lately, hadn't really been practicing too much."

He said: "Well, you know what's going to happen.

One of these days, Alison Krauss is going to call you to come play, but you're not going to be ready."

TOM CASCIATO: You wrote Alison Krauss a fan letter.

SIERRA HULL: Well, I did.

It was -- she never got it, but it was a school assignment.

Write a letter to your.

hero.

TOM CASCIATO: By sheer coincidence, I have a copy of that letter here.

SIERRA HULL: Oh.

TOM CASCIATO: Would you mind reading it?

SIERRA HULL: Sure.

Let's do it.

(LAUGHTER) TOM CASCIATO: We will get to the letter.

First, Alison Krauss was probably the most accomplished woman in bluegrass, already 10 Grammys into a career that has seen her win 27.

Sierra Hull was 10.

SIERRA HULL: "Dear Ms. Krauss, Dear Ms. Alison Krauss, my name is Sierra Hull.

I'm a very, very big fan of yours.

I'm coming to one of your festivals for the first time, MerleFest, North Carolina.

I'm bringing my half-size fiddle for you to sign so maybe one day I can show my kids how to play.

You're my hero."

And the idea of going to another state to go to a festival, let alone one Alison Krauss was at just seemed impossibly cool.

TOM CASCIATO: It got cooler when she was outside the festival playing a song by mandolin virtuoso Chris Thile, who happened to buy and must have liked what he heard.

SIERRA HULL: I look up, and Chris Thile is right in front of me.

And he says: "Holy cow.

Want to play it together?"

And I was like: "What?"

And so we went and found a little corner somewhere and he jammed with me for like an hour-and-a-half, and he took me backstage to meet my hero.

And she signed my fiddle.

TOM CASCIATO: Dream come true, right, and the beginning of a musical friendship.

Just two years later, Alison would invite sierra to perform with her on country's greatest stage, Nashville's Grand Ole Opry.

I have seen a picture of you where you're about 12 and you have got your mandolin and you're with Alison and the band and you're looking at the camera like the cat who caught the canary, like you... SIERRA HULL: To say the least.

TOM CASCIATO: What would follow was a formal music education fueled by a full scholarship to Boston's Berkeley College of Music, leading to a series of compositions and collaborations that have seen her search out directions far beyond bluegrass, among them, ethereal tracks produced by banjo legend Belarus Fleck, jazz funk jamming with guitarist-producer Cory Wong, and sophisticated rhythmic explorations with her own band.

"Rolling Stone" calls her a musical force not only in bluegrass, but in various genre circles.

But no matter how intricate the music, her approach remains straightforward.

SIERRA HULL: A lot of times, I'm just kind of going, what does the lyric demand?

What feels good on the instrument?

I will write some sort of crooked, crazy thing, share it with my bandmates.

And they're the ones that will be like, oh, yes there's that weird bar of three here.

And I'm like, OK, great.

TOM CASCIATO: Does your music have boundaries, do you think?

SIERRA HULL: I don't think so.

Those things that I love about all these collaborations I have done, combined with my bluegrass roots, I think it's kind of an inevitable thing.

You're going to get a little funky in there.

TOM CASCIATO: For the "PBS News Hour" I'm Tom Casciato in Washington.

AMNA NAWAZ: And that is the "News Hour" for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS News Hour," thanks for spending part of your evening with us.