Laura: THE RIVER HAS BEEN DRY NEAR SAN ANTONIO AND THE REFUGE FOR ABOUT FOUR MONTHS NOW, BUT NOW IS THE TIME OF YEAR WHEN MIGRATORY BIRDS RETURNING THAT THE REFUGE NEEDS WATER TO FILL ITS PONDS, IS THAT RIGHT?

WHAT ARE CONDITIONS LIKE ON THE REFUGE RIGHT NOW?

Williams: THE CONDITIONS ARE ACTUALLY AS GOOD AS WE COULD EXPECT CONSIDERING THE WATER LEVELS THAT WE HAVE HAD ALL SUMMER.

WE HAVE BEEN WORKING CLOSELY WITH BUREAU OF RECLAMATION AND THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE CONSERVANCY DISTRICT TO TRY TO ENSURE WE DO GET ADEQUATE AGRICULTURAL TAIL WATERS DOWN TO THE REFUGE TO PREPARE FOR THE BIRDS ARRIVAL.

WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PLANT 120 ACRES OF CORN AND APPROXIMATELY 110 ACRES OF TRITICALE.

THOSE ARE OUR GRAIN CROPS.

WE WON'T HAVE AS MANY MOIST SOIL UNITS AS WE HAVE HAD IN SOME YEARS, BECAUSE WE ARE A BIT WATER LIMITED AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FALL IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

BUT, AS FAR AS OUR TRADITIONAL GRAIN CROPS WE WERE ABLE TO GET CROPS IN THE GROUND.

WE HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT IRRIGATING THEM.

THIS WEEK WE ARE DOING OUR SEED YIELD COUNT SO I CAN'T TELL YOU YET WHAT THOSE SEED YIELDS WILL BE, BUT WE ARE HOPEFUL THAT WE ARE PREPARED WELL FOR OUR MIGRATING FRIENDS TO ARRIVE.

Laura: IN TERMS OF FILLING UP THOSE PONDS FOR SANDHILL CRANES AND GEESE AND OTHER MIGRATING BIRDS, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO BE GOING ABOUT THAT THIS FALL?

WILL THAT BE WITH IRRIGATION WATER OR GROUNDWATER?

HOW IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN?

Williams: WE ALWAYS HOPE TO BE ABLE TO USE IRRIGATION WATER BECAUSE THAT IS A MORE COST FRIENDLY ALTERNATIVE FOR THE REFUGE BUT IN CONVERSATIONS WITH THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE CONSERVANCY DISTRICT AND BOR, WE WEREN'T EXPECTING TO HAVE MUCH AVAILABLE AGRICULTURAL TAILWATERS THIS YEAR, SO WE PROBABLY WILL BE RELYING QUITE SIGNIFICANTLY ON OUR 16 GROUNDWATER WELLS WHICH MEANS WE PROBABLY WON'T HAVE AS MUCH ROOSTING HABITAT THIS YEAR AS IN A YEAR WITH A LOT OF AVAILABLE WATER IN THE SYSTEM.

Laura: DAN, CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THIS YEAR'S DRY CONDITIONS ON THE RIVER AND IN GENERAL MIGHT AFFECT SOME OF THESE SPECIES THAT WE ARE USED TO SEEING IN THE FALL AND WINTER?

Collins: IT MIGHT MAKE THEM THINK A DIFFERENT ROOST SITE BUT IN MY EXPERIENCE, THEY ARE GOING TO PICK AN AREA THAT IS CLOSE TO A FORAGING RESOURCE.

THEY WILL ROOST ON DRY LAND HABITAT, TO BE CLOSE TO THAT RESOURCE, TO MAKE THAT FLIGHT AS SHORT AS POSSIBLE, SO, NOT HAVING WATER WILL SORT OF MUCKY THEM UP A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT IS NOT GOING TO IMPACT THEM AS MUCH AS WE THINK IT WILL.

THEY ARE PRETTY PLASTIC.

Laura: SO HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, THE RIVER IS AT A HISTORIC LOW FOR THIS TIME OF YEAR AND WE'RE ANTICIPATING THE RIVER WILL LIKELY DRY SOON IN THE ALBUQUERQUE STRETCH AND I KNOW I HAVE SEEN SOME SANDHILL CRANES SHOWING UP AND FRANKLY IT JUST SEEMS KIND OF SAD TO SEE THEM, YOU KNOW, HANGING OUT IN THE DRY RIVER BED OR IN THE VERY LOW RIVER BED.

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT FOR THIS WINTER FOR THOSE POPULATIONS?

Collins: FOR ONE YEAR, NO, THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY CONCERN.

IF IT GETS TO BE WHERE IT IS SEVERAL YEARS, YOU KNOW, ADDED ON TOP OF ONE ANOTHER AND STARTS TO HAVE A CASCADING EFFECT, THEN, YES.

BUT, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE SEMI-ARID SYSTEMS, YOU KNOW, THESE RIVERS, THEY ARE PRETTY DYNAMIC IN NATURE.

AND THEY HAVE GONE DRY BEFORE AND THE BIRDS WILL EITHER STICK AROUND AND HANG OUT FOR A YEAR OR FIGURE IT OUT AND MAYBE GO TO PARTS FURTHER SOUTH.

Laura: ARE THERE CONCERNS AT THE REFUGE ABOUT AS THE REGION CONTINUES TO WARM, HOW WE WILL WEATHER BAD YEARS ONE AFTER ANOTHER AFTER ANOTHER INTO THE FUTURE?

Williams: WE ARE DEFINITELY CONCERNED ABOUT CONDITIONS GOING INTO THE FUTURE.

WE HAVE BEEN TALKING REALLY CLOSELY WITH MRGCD AND BOR AND TO OUR UNDERSTANDING, NEXT YEAR COULD ACTUALLY BE WORSE CONDITIONS THAN THIS YEAR.

IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE GOING INTO A LA NINA SNOW PACK YEAR, SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE FOCUSING ON IS IMPROVING OR DROUGHT RESILIENCY, WORKING WITH ENGINEERS TO LOOK AT ALL OF OUR DITCHES AND CANALS ON THE REFUGE AND DETERMINE IF THERE ARE WAYS THAT WE COULD IMPROVE THEIR EFFICACY AND THEIR DESIGN TO HELP MAKE THE REFUGE MORE DROUGHT RESILIENT AS WE LOOK TOWARDS KIND OF LIMITED WATER RESOURCES BOTH NEXT YEAR, BUT LONG-TERM INTO THE FUTURE IF WE START TO SEE MORE FREQUENT DROUGHT YEARS.

Laura: SO WHENEVER WE COVER ISSUES LIKE RIVER DRYING OR IMPACTS ON WILDLIFE, NEW MEXICANS CERTAINLY CARE ABOUT THESE THINGS VERY MUCH.

I AM WONDERING, DAN, OR DEBORAH, IF YOU HAVE ANY INSIGHT FOR PEOPLE WHO OFTEN WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING TO HELP IN SOME WAY.

I AM WONDERING IF YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE FOR PEOPLE.

Collins: I HAVE A COUPLE THINGS.

ONE THING IS TO BUY A DUCK STAMP.

DUCK STAMP DOLLARS GO DIRECTLY TOWARDS WETLAND ENHANCEMENT, CREATION AND PURCHASE.

THAT ENSURES WE CAN HAVE GOOD PRODUCTION OF WETLAND DEPENDENT SPECIES COMING DOWN TO THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

AND THEN ALSO REALIZE THAT WHILE, WITH CLIMATE CHANGE AND OTHER THINGS GOING ON, THAT OUR FEATHERED FRIENDS, THEY HAVE FEATHERS FOR A REASON, SO, THEY'LL PICK UP AND MOST OF THESE BIRDS ARE PRETTY PLASTIC AND WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN OUR ANALYSES IS THAT THESE SNOW PACK DRIVEN SYSTEMS ARE BEING IMPACTED BUT THOSE LIKE FURTHER SOUTH IN MEXICO THAT ARE MORE MONSOON DRIVEN, THOSE WETLANDS ARE ACTUALLY MAINTAINING THEIR WETLAND EXTENT SO THERE WILL BE WATER TO OUR SOUTH IN YEARS WHERE WE MIGHT BE DRY HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

SO, IT MIGHT JUST BE A TRADE OFF TO KNOW THAT THEY WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF IN MEXICO.

Laura: BOSQUE DEL APACHE IS CERTAINLY ONE OF MY FAVORITE PLACES IN THE STATE AND DAN AND DEBORAH, DEFINITELY APPRECIATE YOU JOINING ME TODAY.

THANK YOU.

Williams: THANKS FOR BEING CONCERNED ABOUT THE REFUGE, CARING ABOUT THE RESOURCES AND HELPING RAISE AWARENESS IN THE COMMUNITY.

YOU ASKED ABOUT OTHER WAYS TO GET INVOLVED AND CERTAINLY AT LEAST AT THE REFUGE WE DO HAVE AN ACTIVE FRIENDS GROUP AND ALWAYS ENCOURAGE PEOPLE IF YOU CARE ABOUT BOSQUE DEL APACHE, CONSIDER GETTING INVOLVED WITH THE FRIENDS GROUP AND SEEING HOW YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE THROUGH A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION.