FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Lou: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, WIND FUELED WILDFIRES WHIPPING THROUGH NEW MEXICO.

WHY THE WEATHER HAS BEEN SO EXTREME THIS YEAR?

>> Overpeck: HOW IS CLIMATE CHANGE AFFECTING LA NINA?

THOSE ARE QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE TO ASK AND GET SOME ANSWERS TO.

>> Lou: PLUS A PROFESSOR AND AUTHOR EXPLAINS HOW TO COPE WITH THE BURDEN OF CLIMATE ANXIETY AND IMPORTANCE OF FINDING COMMUNITY DURING CRISIS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO FILLING IN FOR GENE GRANT.

THIS YEAR'S FIRE SEASON IS LIKE NOTHING NEW MEXICANS HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED.

AS WE ARE TAPING THIS, THE HERMIT'S PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO HAS FORCED EVACUATION OF 10'S OF THOUSANDS OF NEW MEXICANS.

IT HAS DESTROYED HUNDREDS OF HOMES, SCARED THE LANDSCAPE AND IS MARCHING ONWARD EVERY DAY.

THAT IS DESPITE THE BEST EFFORTS OF FIREFIGHTERS ON THE GROUND AND TANKERS AND PILOTS IN THE SKY.

IT IS ALREADY ON TRACK TO SURPASS THE LARGEST FIRE IN THE STATE'S HISTORY, THE WHITE WATER BALDY FIRE, WHICH BURNED MORE THAN 297,000 ACRES IN 2012.

WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN OUR STATE RIGHT NOW, THE DRY AND HOT SPRING AND THE SUSTAINED HIGH WINDS, IT IS REMARKABLE IN ITS INTENSITY AND HORROR.

IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH A NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE METEOROLOGIST TO FIND OUT WHY WINDS HAVE BEEN SO EXTREME THIS YEAR.

THEN THE LINE OPINION PANELISTS WEIGH IN ON THE GROWING DISCUSSION SURROUNDING PRESCRIBED BURNS.

BUT WE START WITH ANOTHER STORY BLAZING THROUGH HEADLINES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE LEAKED SUPREME COURT DRAFT OPINION THAT COULD END FEDERAL ABORTION PROTECTION.

BUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN HERE IN NEW MEXICO?

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

>> Kevin: HELLO, AND WELCOME TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL THIS WEEK.

I AM KEVIN MCDONALD, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, FILLING IN FOR GENE GRANT WHO IS UNDER THE WEATHER.

I'M HAPPY TO BE JOINED BY JESSICA ONSUREZ, NEWS DIRECTOR AT THE CARLSBAD CURRENT ARGUS.

GREAT TO SEE CATHRYN MCGILL BACK WITH US AS ALWAYS.

FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR AT NEW MEXICO BLACK LEADERSHIP COUNCIL AMONG ABOUT HALF A DOZEN OTHER THINGS.

AND WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE REGULAR TOM GARRITY FROM THE GARRITY GROUP PR.

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US AND WE ARE STARTING WITH ONE OF THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL STORIES CIRCULATING RIGHT NOW.

OF COURSE, THAT IS THE LEAKED DRAFT OPINION THAT WOULD OVERTURN ROE VERSUS WADE.

THE SUPREME COURT'S OFFICIAL DECISION WON'T BE MADE UNTIL JUNE OR JULY AND IT STILL COULD MOVE IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION BUT THE LEAK IS SPARKING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THAT RULING WERE OVERTURNED.

ABORTION ACCESS WOULD REMAIN LEGAL IN NEW MEXICO BECAUSE OF A 2021 LAW PASSED BY THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND SIGNED BY GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM.

NOW SOME OTHER STATES ARE SCRAMBLING TO MAKE A SIMILAR MOVE BUT IT MIGHT NOT BE IN TIME.

AND, TOM, CURIOUS, COULD YOU HAVE IMAGINED WHEN THERE WAS A DEBATE OVER THIS BILL IN 2020 AND THEN 2021, IT WOULD ACTUALLY PASS, THAT IT WOULD BECOME SO RELEVANT SO QUICKLY?

>> Tom: DEFINITELY WHEN SENATOR CARRIE HAMBLEN OUT OF LAS CRUCES HELPED TO INTRODUCE THE LEGISLATION BACK IN 2021, YOU KNOW, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE THINKING, OKAY, IT IS MORE OF A POLITICAL POWER PLAY THAN ANYTHING ELSE TO SHORE UP THE BETS.

OF COURSE, THIS WAS RIGHT OFF OF PRESIDENT BIDEN'S VICTORY OVER FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP AND SO THERE WAS A LOT -- YOU KNOW, THE ANXIETY ON BOTH SIDES AND THE DIVISION WAS SO HIGH THAT A LOT OF ENTITIES DECIDED THAT -- GOVERNMENT ENTITIES DECIDED THEY WANTED TO HEDGE THEIR BETS JUST IN CASE THE SUPREME COURT DID SOMETHING AND LO AND BEHOLD THE SUPREME COURT DID.

>> Kevin: JESSICA, DOWN THERE IN CARLSBAD, ANY CITIES CLOSE TO THE BORDER ARE GOING TO BE THE TIP OF THE SPEAR ON THIS LIKE A LOT OF PLACES AND THERE IS ALREADY TALK FROM PLANNED PARENTHOOD OR ROCKY MOUNTAIN ABOUT ADDING CLINICS IN BORDER TOWNS.

WE KNOW IF THIS ALL PLAYS OUT AS WE THINK IT IS GOING TO RIGHT NOW, THAT WE WILL BE BASICALLY SURROUNDED, MINUS COLORADO, WITH ABORTION BAN.

SO THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF INFLUX HERE AND COVID HAS LAYED BARE A LOT OF HEALTHCARE SHORTAGE ISSUES.

IS THERE A CONCERN ABOUT THE STRAIN THAT YOU ARE FEELING DOWN THERE?

>> Onsurez: ACTUALLY, YEAH, SO WHEN WE STARTED REPORTING ON WHAT TEXAS WAS DOING, IT HAS MOVED TO BAN ABORTION IN THAT SIX-WEEK PERIOD, AFTER THAT SIX-WEEK PERIOD, THERE WAS A LOT OF TALK ABOUT SEEING THE POPULATION IN NEED OF ABORTION SERVICES MOVE INTO NEW MEXICO WHICH WAS CONSIDERED A STATE FRIENDLY TO THIS TYPE OF SERVICE.

BUT WHAT WE STARTED TO SEE REALLY WAS A BIGGER QUESTION ABOUT ACCESS.

WE TALK ABOUT NEW MEXICO ABOLISHING ITS '69 ACT THAT WOULD CRIMINALIZE ABORTIONS BUT WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THE ACTUAL SERVICES WE HAVE IN PLACE NOW, WHICH, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, OUT OF THE 33 COUNTIES IN NEW MEXICO ONLY THREE OFFER THAT SERVICE.

AND TWO OF THEM ARE IN CENTRAL NEW MEXICO SO WE STARTED TO DRIVE IN A LOT WHEN IT CAME TO ACCESS AND THAT IS JUST ONE OF THE CHALLENGES FOR THE STATE WHEN IT COMES TO ABORTION SERVICES.

WE ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT STAFFING SHORTAGES, ABOUT FINANCIAL CHALLENGES, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE SEEKING THIS TYPE OF SERVICE.

CATHY CAN SPEAK TO THIS A WHOLE LOT MORE THAN I COULD BUT WE SEE DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED PEOPLE OF COLOR WHEN IT COMES TO ACCESS.

SO THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW NEW MEXICO WILL WEATHER ITS NEIGHBORING STATES BANNING ABORTION SERVICES, OKLAHOMA INCLUDED IS MY UNDERSTANDING, IN THE COMING YEAR.

>> Kevin: CATHY, IF YOU WOULD, YES, PLEASE, EXPAND ON THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT HOW THIS ISSUE IS EVEN MORE OF A FLASH POINT IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, POOR COMMUNITIES AND WHAT MORE YOU THINK MIGHT BE COMING OUR WAY IN TERMS OF LEGISLATION AROUND THIS AS WE SEE THAT STRAIN BUILD UP?

>> McGill: A COUPLE OF THINGS TO ME, I THINK, WHAT I HAD TO COME TO WHEN WE WOKE UP AND HEARD THE NEWS ABOUT THE LEAK OF THE MAJORITY OPINION FROM THE SUPREME COURT, WAS THAT LIFE AS WE KNOW IT IS NO MORE.

AND WE COULD HAVE NEVER IMAGINED THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS WOULD HAPPEN AND DON'T KNOW WHO LEAKED THE INFORMATION BUT WHAT IT HAS BROUGHT BACK TO US IS THE FACT THAT THIS IS A MOVE, PERHAPS MORE, TO STATE'S RIGHTS AND TO FEAR OF FEDERALISM AND HOPING THAT THINGS WILL BE ADJUDICATED BY THE STATES AND ALL THE TRIGGER LAWS THAT ARE IN EFFECT JUST REMIND ME WHAT WE WERE DEALING WITH IN THE 1950'S AND '60'S ABOUT LIMITING PEOPLES' RIGHTS AND HAVING THE STATES BE ABLE TO CHOOSE WHO COULD DO WHAT.

SO WE KNOW THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR WILL BE ADVERSELY AFFECTED.

AND WHEN PEOPLE SIMPLY TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU NOW WOULD HAVE TO TRAVEL TO GET AN ABORTION, SO WHO HAS THE MEANS TO DO THAT?

SO, IT BRINGS INTO MIND ALL THESE MORALITY ISSUES AND IN ORDER TO LAUGH TO KEEP FROM CRYING, THE MEME THAT WAS GOING AROUND ABOUT A BUNCH OF DOGS, PROBABLY MOSTLY MALE DOGS, DISCUSSING FELINE HEALTHCARE.

>> Kevin: WE, OF COURSE, KNOW THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE HERE IN NEW MEXICO, EVERYWHERE, THAT ACTUALLY THINK THIS IS A GOOD THING AND THIS IS ALL GOING TO CARRY OVER INTO A MIDTERM ELECTION.

AND I AM JUST CURIOUS WHAT YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT WHAT IMPACT THIS ISSUE WILL HAVE IN OUR MIDTERMS COMING UP.

DOES IT HELP ONE PARTY OVER THE OTHER IN TERMS OF TURNOUT?

LET'S START THERE.

TOM, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> Tom: THE TOPIC OF ABORTION IS SOMETHING THAT REALLY MOBILIZES THE EXTREMES OF EACH OF THE PARTIES.

SO, YOU KNOW, PROGRESSIVES ARE DEFINITELY A LOT MORE FOCUSED ON THIS AS AN ISSUE WILL GET THEM OUT TO THE POLLS JUST IN THE SAME WAY AS THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT OR THE CONSERVATIVES ARE GOING OUT FOR THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT I THINK WHAT WE COULD SEE IS THAT YOU WILL HAVE EXTREMIST CANDIDATES POTENTIALLY ELECTED ON EITHER SIDE BECAUSE OF THE INFLUENCE OF THIS LANDMARK, POTENTIALLY LANDMARK, CASE FROM THE SUPREME COURT.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE IMPACT WE'LL SEE IS REALLY MORE ON THE PRIMARIES AS YOU SAID AND WE'LL HAVE TO SEE HOW THAT IMPACTS THE TYPES OF CANDIDATES THAT BOTH THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS SEND OUT INTO THE GENERAL PRIMARY OR GENERAL ELECTIONS.

>> Kevin: YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY DOWN IN A MORE CONSERVATIVE PART OF THE STATE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

WHAT IS THIS ISSUE IN TERMS OF MOBILIZING TO THE VOTE IN 2022?

>> Onsurez: WE ARE IN A CONSERVATIVE PART OF THE STATE.

WE HAVE VERY RED VOTERS IN SOUTHEAST NEW MEXICO SPECIFICALLY AND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS IS THESE COUNTIES DOWN HERE ARE ALREADY STARTING TO PASS RESOLUTIONS NAMING THEIR COMMUNITIES PRO LIFE OR LIFE SAVING COMMUNITIES.

AND SO I THINK THAT IS A BIG FLAG TO OUR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES OUT THERE THAT THEY WANT TO SEE THEM TAKE A STANCE, A STRONGER STANCE, AND USE STRONG LANGUAGE WHEN IT COMES TO ABORTION ITSELF.

I DO KNOW IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, OUR FRONT RUNNERS, RONCHETTI AND REBECCA DOW HAVE COME OUT WITH A STATEMENT ABOUT HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING, BUT I THINK VOTERS IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO, SOUTHEAST NEW MEXICO, ARE LOOKING FOR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES TO TAKE THIS TOPIC BACK FOR IT TO BE A MOMENT FOR THEM TO REALLY GET THAT MESSAGE OUT THERE IN WHAT HAS BEEN A LARGELY BLUE STATE.

>> Kevin: WE'LL COME BACK TO THE GOVERNOR'S RACE IN A MOMENT.

I JUST WANT TO STICK WITH YOU FOR A MOMENT.

YOUR CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVE THERE, YOU HAVE GOT YVETTE HERRELL, WHO IS KIND OF -- WE WILL BE HEARING A LOT ON THE NATIONAL STAGE IN TERMS OF THE MAIN MESSAGES I HAVE SEEN ARE OUTRAGE OVER THE LEAK AND NOT SO MUCH ABOUT WHAT THE DECISION MAY BE.

AND JUST CURIOUS, DO YOU SEE HER CHANGING HER TACTICS AT ALL CONSIDERING, I MYSELF ON THE WESTSIDE OF ALBUQUERQUE, WILL NOW BE VOTING IN THAT DISTRICT, RIGHT?

>> Onsurez: MAYBE NOT CHANGING AS MUCH AS DIALING BACK.

I DO THINK THAT THOSE NEW LINES DRAWN WITH REDISTRICTING HAVE PROBABLY CAUSED HER TO PAUSE AND RECONSIDER HOW FORCEFULLY SHE WANTS TO APPROACH THE ISSUE.

BUT YOU ARE RIGHT, I THINK THAT THOSE NEWLY DRAWN LINES ARE GOING TO FORCE HER TO, PERHAPS, TAKE A SOFTER STANCE ON THE ISSUE IF SHE WANTS TO CONTINUE TO SEEK THAT SEAT.

>> Kevin: BACK TO THE GOVERNOR'S RACE HERE, AS TOM MENTIONED THIS CAN KIND OF PUSH CANDIDATES TO THE EXTREMES.

HOW DO YOU SEE THESE ALREADY A CROWDED FIELD, ONE OF WHICH THE CANDIDATE IS REALLY A ONE-ISSUE CANDIDATE ON THIS VERY ISSUE OF ABORTION, OVERTURNING ROE VERSUS WADE.

WHAT DO YOU SEE THE CANDIDATES AND IF THEY GO FULL BORE IN THIS MODE, CAN THEY MAKE THEIR WAY BACK INTO THE CENTER AT ALL IN A GENERAL ELECTION?

>> McGill: I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE CHALLENGING.

OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE, AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, ARE HEDGING THEIR BETS TO TRY TO GET THE PULSE OF THE CONSTITUENCIES.

WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT MOST OF THE VOTING PUBLIC AGREES WITH HAVING ROE V WADE BE THE LAW OF THE LAND.

SO POLITICIANS WHO MAY BE OPPOSITE TO THAT, YOU KNOW, DEPENDS ON WHAT THEY FEEL THEIR BASE IS, AND IF IT IS STRONG ENOUGH TO GET THEM OVER THE FINISH LINE IN A PRIMARY SITUATION, THEY JUST REALLY HAVE TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT LIKE WHAT IS THE PULSE OF THE PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE PLAYING TO.

WE KNOW ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE THERE IS GOING TO BE FULL BORE THAT WE WANT TO KEEP ROE VERSUS WADE BUT FOR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES, THEY ARE REALLY GOING TO HAVE TO HEDGE THEIR BET.

>> Kevin: ABOUT 15 SECONDS LEFT, TOM, WHAT IS THE BUMP FOR GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM AND HER REELECTION, BEING ABLE TO POINT TO THAT LAW THAT SHE GOT PASSED LAST YEAR AND THAT OVERWHELMING SUPPORT AND PUBLIC OPINION POLL THAT CATHY JUST MENTIONED FOR THE UPHOLDING OF ROE VERSUS WADE?

>> Tom: CLEARLY FOR THE GOVERNOR, THIS IS A TOPIC THAT WILL MOTIVATE HER BASE TO GET OUT AND VOTE AND THAT IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST BUMP.

THE QUESTION IS WHEN WE GET CLOSER TO ELECTION DAY, HOW MUCH OF THIS WILL REALLY STILL BE TOP OF MIND FOR ALL THE VOTERS BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN SO MANY TIMES HOW ISSUES CAN COME UP WITHIN A MOMENTS NOTICE AND CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF A CAMPAIGN.

>> Kevin: THANK YOU TO ALL THE LINE PANELISTS.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE AGAIN IN OUR VIRTUAL ROUND TABLE IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT THE LARGEST WILDFIRE IN THE COUNTRY BURNING RIGHT NOW HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Groginsky: THIS NEXT 10 YEARS MATTERS SO MUCH.

WE HAVE OFTEN HEARD AND MAKES PEOPLE FEEL LIKE, OKAY, I'LL WORK MY TAIL OFF UNTIL THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED AND THEN I'LL BE ABLE TO RELAX AND THERE IS NO TIME FOR REST.

>> Lou: IN NEW MEXICO, WE KNOW ALL ABOUT GUSTY SPRING WINDS BUT THIS YEAR HAS BEEN PARTICULARLY BRUTAL CAUSING DAMAGE, FUELING WILDFIRES AND WHIPPING UP DUST STORMS.

TO FIND OUT IF THESE CONDITIONS ARE AS UNUSUAL AS THEY SEEM, ENVIRONMENT REPORTING LAURA PASKUS SAT DOWN WITH SCOTT OVERPECK.

HE IS WITH THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN ALBUQUERQUE WHICH HAS BEEN EXTRA BUSY LATELY WORKING ACROSS AGENCIES TO HELP SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT FIRE WEATHER.

THAT IS WEATHER WITH LOW HUMIDITY AND INTENSE WINDS.

>> Laura: SCOTT OVERPECK, THANKS FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

>> Overpeck: THANKS FOR HAVING ME, LAURA.

I AM GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> Laura: WE ALL KNOW SPRING IN NEW MEXICO IS WINDY BUT APRIL AND NOW INTO MAY, ARE THESE WINDS AS UNUSUAL AS THEY SEEM TO ME RIGHT NOW?

>> Overpeck: ONE THING IS FOR SURE, THAT THE WINDS HAVE BEEN NOTABLY HIGHER.

IT'S NOT UNUSUAL FOR APRIL AND MAY BECAUSE THOSE ARE OUR WINDIEST TIMES OF THE YEAR BUT WE HAVE ISSUED SEVERAL MORE HIGH WIND WARNINGS AND WIND ADVISORIES NOTIFYING PEOPLE THAT, YES, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE HIGH WINDS ON THOSE DAYS AND WE ISSUED A LOT MORE OF THOSE WITHIN APRIL AND MAY THAN WE HAVE FOR QUITE SOME TIME, PROBABLY GOING BACK TO 2011.

SO CERTAINLY HAS BEEN A WINDY YEAR SO FAR.

>> Laura: WE'LL GET TO KIND OF THIS PAST WEEKEND'S CONDITIONS BUT I WANTED TO LOOK BACK TO APRIL A LITTLE BIT.

APRIL 22, APRIL 29, THOSE FELT LIKE REALLY NOTABLE DAYS.

DO THOSE SHOW UP IN THE DATA TOO OR IS IT JUST ME REMEMBERING WHAT THOSE DAYS WERE LIKE?

>> Overpeck: THOSE SHOWED UP IN THE DATA AS WELL.

THERE WERE SEVERAL AREAS THAT HAD WIND GUSTS UP TO 60, 70 MILES PER HOUR AND CERTAINLY WAS A BIG DRIVER FOR A LOT OF WILDFIRES THAT WE HAVE AND CAUSING A LOT OF SPREAD, SO CERTAINLY NOT YOUR IMAGINATION.

CERTAINLY THOSE WERE SOME OF OUR WINDIER DAYS IN APRIL AND WE HAVE TRIED TO GET THE WARNINGS OUT FOR PEOPLE AND LET THEM KNOW THAT TO BE PREPARED FOR THE WIND AND THOSE DAYS BECAUSE THOSE WERE CERTAINLY BIG DAYS FOR THOSE TIMES.

>> Laura: TAKING US BACK TO LAST WEEK AND THE WEEK BEFORE MOTHER'S DAY, THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE WAS ALL OVER THESE WARNINGS.

THE GOVERNOR WAS TALKING ABOUT THEM.

FIREFIGHTERS WERE CERTAINLY WATCHING THEM.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT YOU KNEW WAS COMING, WHAT HAPPENED AND WHY?

>> Overpeck: CERTAINLY.

I THINK THE BIGGEST THING WAS THAT WE KNEW AND WE COULD SEE THAT THERE WAS A BIG STORM SYSTEM, A TROUGH THAT WAS DEVELOPING UP IN THE BIG BASIN OR GREAT BASIN AND THEN DOWN TOWARDS THE FOUR CORNERS.

WE KNEW THIS WOULD PUT THE JET STREAM PRETTY WELL OVER OUR NECK OF THE WOODS, OVER NEW MEXICO.

SO, THAT WAS ONE OF THOSE FEATURES THAT WE COULD REALLY KIND OF PINPOINT SEVERAL DAYS IN ADVANCE.

AND NOT ONLY THAT, LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, IT WAS GOING TO BE KIND OF SLOW MOVING.

SO, WE ARE STILL KIND OF UNDER THAT JET STREAM EVEN NOW AND THAT IS WHY WE DECIDED TO REALLY KIND OF PUSH THE ENVELOPE AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT YOUR ORDINARY SYSTEM.

IT IS GOING TO BE SLOWER MOVING.

THAT MEANS WE'LL HAVE SEVERAL DAYS WHERE WE COULD HAVE STRONG AND HIGH WINDS AND THAT IS KIND OF WHAT WAS BORNE OUT OVER THE WEEKEND, EVEN YESTERDAY.

SO THAT IS KIND OF THE REASONING WHY WE COULD SEE THIS IN THE DATA AND FORECAST OR GET THE WORD OUT AND IT IS A REALLY BIG HELP TO HAVE EVERYBODY WORKING TOGETHER, NOT JUST THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE, BUT, LIKE YOU SAID, THE GOVERNOR AND OTHER AGENCIES JUST HAVING THAT SAME MESSAGE AND LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO REALLY BE PREPARED FOR AND ESPECIALLY IN THOSE WILDFIRE AREAS.

>> Laura: EVERYDAY I KIND OF CHECK THE WEATHER LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE AND IT'S GOING TO BE ANOTHER WINDY DAY AND I KEEP THINKING, WELL, MAYBE THIS WILL BE THE LAST ONE.

ARE WE LOOKING AT CONTINUED ON AND OFF WINDY CONDITIONS THROUGH THE SPRING THIS YEAR?

>> Overpeck: WELL, I THINK IT IS GOING TO DEPEND ON HOW THESE STORM SYSTEMS MOVE ACROSS THE SOUTHERN ROCKIES, SO, WE ARE KIND OF IN THAT PERIOD NOW AND THE FORECAST WHAT THOSE LOOK LIKE, WINDS WILL DROP OFF SOME TOWARD THE WEEKEND BUT THEN EVEN IF WE LOOK WAY OUT BEYOND 7, 8, 10 DAYS OUT, ABOUT AS FAR AS OUR FORECAST MODELS WILL GO, THOSE LOOK LIKE NEXT WEEK WE MIGHT SEE THE WINDS COME BACK A LITTLE BIT STRONGER.

WE HAVE TO TAKE IT AS IT COMES, UNFORTUNATELY.

>> Laura: WE TALK ON OUR SHOW A LOT ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND THERE ARE CERTAINLY CERTAIN THINGS LIKE RISING TEMPERATURES AND CHANGES IN SNOW PACK THAT WE CAN POINT TOWARDS CLIMATE CHANGE AND WARMING.

ARE THESE WIND PATTERNS, DOES THIS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WARMING AND CLIMATE CHANGE OR IS THIS SOMETHING SEPARATE?

>> Overpeck: I THINK WHERE CLIMATE CHANGE REALLY HAS ITS IMPACT IS, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, WE ARE HAVING DROUGHT CONDITIONS, WE ARE LOOKING AT, THESE DRYER BELOW NORMAL PRECIP CONDITIONS AND THERE IS SOME TIE WITH THAT TO EVEN THE EL NINO-LA NINA PATTERN THAT WE ARE IN.

WE ARE CURRENTLY IN LA NINA.

HOW DOES CLIMATE CHANGE REALLY AFFECT THOSE PATTERNS AND THEN THAT IS GOING TO IMPACT WHAT OUR WEATHER PATTERN LOOKS LIKE FOR EACH SPRING.

SO IT TRICKLES ALL THE WAY DOWN BUT THERE IS GOING TO BE SOME INFLUENCE ON WHERE AND HOW THESE STORM SYSTEMS DEVELOP BASED ON THAT.

GETTING DOWN TO THE NITTY GRITTY DETAIL, CAN WE REALLY NAIL THAT DOWN, NOT EXACTLY, BUT YOU DEFINITELY KNOW THERE IS THOSE CONNECTIONS AND THERE ARE GOING TO BE SOME IMPACTS IN INFLUENCING WHAT WE GET ON A DAY-TO-DAY WEATHER BASED OFF THAT.

IT IS HARD TO REALLY PINPOINT EXACTLY WHICH DAYS, YOU KNOW, OKAY, WAS THIS REALLY WITHIN THE REALMS OF WHAT WE TYPICALLY SEE?

IS THIS OUT OF THE ORDINARY?

YOU KNOW.

THIS RECENT PATTERN CERTAINLY COULD MORE EASILY TIED TO LA NINA, BUT THEN HOW IS CLIMATE CHANGE AFFECTING LA NINA?

THOSE ARE QUESTIONS WE HAVE TO ASK AND GET ANSWERS FOR.

>> Laura: I ALREADY KNOW THIS ISN'T A FAIR QUESTION TO ASK BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT FIVE AND 10-DAY FORECASTS BUT IS THIS PATTERN THAT WE ARE SEEING THIS YEAR, ARE WE GOING TO LOOK BACK ON THIS YEAR AND BE LIKE, WHEW, THAT WAS AN OUTLIER?

THAT WAS A REALLY ROTTEN YEAR.

OR WILL WE LOOK BACK ON THIS YEAR AND BE LIKE, THAT WAS THE START OF A CHANGE THAT WE ARE GOING TO START SEEING ON A REGULAR BASIS IN THE SPRING?

>> Overpeck: WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS AS AVERAGING OUT THE EXTREMES.

THIS COULD POTENTIALLY BE ONE OF THOSE YEARS THAT IS GOING TO STICK OUT MORE THAN THE OTHERS.

HOW FREQUENTLY ARE THEY GOING TO BE, THAT IS UNKNOWN.

WE REALLY JUST DON'T KNOW.

IS THIS GOING TO BE THE START OF A TREND?

YOU KNOW, ATMOSPHERE LIKES TO BALANCE THINGS OUT.

CLIMATE LIKES TO BALANCE THINGS OUT.

SO CERTAINLY WE ARE LOOKING AT A REALLY DRY YEAR AND CERTAINLY SEE THAT BEAR OUT IN THE CLIMATE DATA, SO WE'LL JUST HAVE TO SEE A LITTLE BIT MORE, GET A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION ON HOW THIS FALLS OUT AND CAN WE SEE IF THIS IS A NEW TREND IN MOVING FORWARD.

>> Laura: LASTLY, WHEN PEOPLE GET THOSE ALERTS, PEOPLE SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU ALL WOULD LIKE US TO DO WHEN WE SEE THESE ALERTS AND WARNINGS?

>> Overpeck: I THINK THE MAIN THING IS WHEN YOU SEE A WARNING FOR LIKE RED FLAG CONDITIONS, THAT IS BASICALLY SAYING, NO, NO, DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH A FLAME.

DON'T DO ANYTHING THAT CAUSES A SPARK.

I KNOW THAT PEOPLE WANT TO GET WORK DONE ON THEIR PROPERTY, WANT TO TAKE CARE OF ANY SHRUBS AROUND AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, ANY KIND OF OUTDOOR WELDING, ANYTHING LIKE THAT, IS JUST NOT REALLY A GOOD IDEA.

IF YOU'RE OUT CAMPING, USE EXTRA SPECIAL CARE AND MAKE SURE YOUR CAMPFIRES ARE CONTAINED AND PUT OUT AND FOLLOW REGULATIONS FROM THE STATE PARKS AND NATIONAL PARKS AND FOLLOW WHAT THEY SUGGEST YOU DO.

EVEN TRUCKS STOPPING ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, YOU WOULDN'T THINK OF HOT BRAKES BEING SOMETHING THAT COULD DO IT BUT IT IS THAT KIND THING THAT COULD REALLY EVEN SIMPLY JUST SET OFF A BRUSH FIRE, SO, IT JUST DOESN'T TAKE MUCH IN THESE CONDITIONS TO GET SOMETHING GOING.

AND LASTLY IF YOU'RE IN ONE OF THESE AREAS DEALING WITH WILDFIRES IN CLOSE PROXIMITY, FOLLOW THE EVACUATION ORDERS, HAVE A GO KIT, HAVE SOMETHING READY TO GO SO THAT YOU CAN EVACUATE AT A MOMENT'S NOTES.

>> Laura: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I FEEL LIKE I NEVER FULLY UNDERSTOOD UNTIL THIS FIRE SEASON WAS THAT AN EVACUATION ORDER HAS SO MUCH TO DO WITH YOUR EXIT ROUTE.

I THINK SOMETIMES I IN THE PAST HAVE THOUGHT IT HAD TO DO WITH, OH, THE FIRE IS COMING THIS WAY, AND, OH, I SEE IT IS OVER THERE, I DON'T NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT YET.

BUT REALLY THOSE EVACUATION ROUTES ARE CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.

>> Overpeck: THAT IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE DON'T QUITE GET.

THE FIRE MAY NOT BE AFFECTING THEIR PROPERTY RIGHT AWAY BUT THEIR ESCAPE ROUTE COULD BE CUT OFF AND THAT IS WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A WAY TO GET OUT.

>> Laura: SCARY STUFF THIS YEAR.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING ON THE SHOW AND FOR HELPING US UNDERSTAND WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON.

>> Overpeck: I APPRECIATE BEING ON.

THANK YOU.

>> Kevin: WELCOME BACK TO OUR OPINION PANELISTS.

WE ARE GOING TO STICK TO THE TOPIC WE JUST HEARD ABOUT, THESE CRAZY HIGH WINDS AND WILDFIRES THEY ARE FUELING.

THE LARGEST FIRE BURNING IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW IS THE HERMIT'S PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE.

IT STARTED AS PRESCRIBED BURN BEFORE IT GREW OUT OF CONTROL AND DURING A BRIEFING ON THE WILDFIRES THIS WEEK, GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM SAID NEW MEXICANS DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT HAPPENING AGAIN.

AND THAT STATE FORESTER, HOMELAND SECURITY AND OTHER STATE OFFICIALS WILL ALL HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW AND WHEN THESE BURNS ARE PERFORMED.

BUT, OF COURSE, THE DAMAGE IS ALREADY DONE.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS SHE UNDERSTANDS PEOPLES' ANGER AND SHE IS UPSET TOO CALLING THIS SITUATION, NEGLIGENCE, NOW LOOKING FOR ACCOUNTABILITY AND SAYS IT IS LIKELY CONGRESS AND OTHER FEDERAL PARTNERS WILL ACCEPT THAT THERE IS SIGNIFICANT FEDERAL RESPONSIBILITY, ADDING IF ANYONE WANTS A FIGHT OVER IT, THEY'LL GET ONE.

LET'S START WITH YOU CATHY.

I KNOW IT IS HARD RIGHT NOW IN THE MIDDLE OF FIGHTING THEM BUT THIS ISSUE OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND HOW WE GET AT THAT, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON ACCOUNTABILITY AND HOW WE SHOULD GET AT THAT?

>> McGill: OH, I LOVE ACCOUNTABILITY.

I'LL USE IT IN ALL THINGS ALL THE TIME.

AND I WOULD SAY THAT EVERYONE DOES NEED TO ACCEPT ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THIS CONTROLLED BURN AND THE FACT IT GOT WAY OUT OF HAND.

I KNOW THAT PEOPLE HAVE ACCEPTED SOME RESPONSIBILITY BUT I DO THINK THAT WE MAY BE GETTING THE RIGHT ANSWER TO THE WRONG QUESTION.

SO, I THINK ACCOUNTABILITY NEEDS TO BE AROUND DISCUSSING WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS CLIMATE CHANGE, OR, YOU KNOW, IT IS A FUNCTION OF THIS CONTROLLED BURN GETTING OUT OF HAND AND THERE BEING SOME MALFEASANCE INVOLVED.

I THINK WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE FACT THAT PERHAPS THIS WAS NO SURPRISE AND THAT IT WAS A PREDICTABLE ALMOST CERTAIN FUTURE THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN AT SOME POINT BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, BUT THERE IS A LARGER ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED.

>> Kevin: WE HAVE TALKED VERY RECENTLY LOTS OF FOLKS WHO TALK ABOUT HOW WHAT WORKED IN THE PAST ISN'T GOING TO NOW BECAUSE AGAIN WIND, HEAT, DRYNESS, IT WAS ALL EARLIER.

NONE OF US CAN REMEMBER A TIME OF THAT SERIOUS OF A WILDFIRE IN APRIL, RIGHT?

HERE WE ARE IN MAY.

WE HAVEN'T REALLY HIT THE TRADITIONAL WILDFIRE SEASON AND IT IS UNLIKE ANYTHING WE HAVE EVER SEEN.

SO, TOM, FOR YOU AGAIN TOO, IS IT GOOD FOR THE GOVERNOR TO SORT OF LAY THE GROUNDWORK TO LEAD THE CHARGE DOWN THE ROAD ABOUT FINDING OUT WHAT WE DO TO ADJUST AND TO ADDRESS THAT ACCOUNTABILITY QUESTION?

>> Tom: ABSOLUTELY.

SHE IS THE BEST PERSON TO REPRESENT THE STATE'S INTERESTS TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AT THIS POINT AND THE OVERALL STATE RESPONSE TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY HAS REALLY BEEN QUITE IMPRESSIVE AS FAR AS THE OUTREACH AND COORDINATION AMONG ALL DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES WHO, YOU KNOW, FOR THE MOST PART, THERE MIGHT JUST BE A LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT OR A COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENT.

AND DHS HAS DONE A GOOD JOB AND THE GOVERNOR CAN TAKE THAT COORDINATED STATE EFFORT TO BASICALLY SHOW WASHINGTON HOW THEY NEED TO KIND OF COME UP AND HELP NEW MEXICO GET THROUGH THIS TIME.

>> Kevin: PART OF THAT LAST WEEK, THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED HER REQUEST FOR A FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARATION AND UNLIKE MOST OF THOSE FEDERAL REQUESTS IT WAS SIGNED AND APPROVED BY THE PRESIDENT WITHIN TWO DAYS AND NOW THE STATE IS SET TO RECEIVE FEDERAL EMERGENCY FUNDS WHILE THE EMERGENCY IS STILL ONGOING.

HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT FOR A STATE LIKE OURS WHERE PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING, WE KNOW THAT WE ARE TAXING OUR WATER SYSTEMS EVEN MORE TO FIGHT THE FIRES AND MANY WATER SYSTEMS PEOPLE ARE BEING TOLD THEY CAN'T DRINK THE WATER BECAUSE OF THE ASH AND THINGS THAT ARE GETTING INTO THEIR SYSTEMS.

THAT MONEY IS CRUCIAL HERE, ISN'T IT?

>> Onsurez: FIGHTING FIRES IS EXPENSIVE ON ALL FRONTS.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE COST OF PERSONNEL, MANAGEMENT AND COST FOR WATER AND ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE GOT SUCH A LONG PERIOD OF ONGOING FIRE.

IT WAS EXCEPTIONAL TO SEE THAT SIGNED AS QUICKLY AS IT WAS BUT I THINK THAT IT HASN'T ESCAPED ANYONE, LOCAL, REGIONAL, STATE, FEDERAL LEVEL, HOW BIG OF A DISASTER THIS ACTUALLY IS AND HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT IT ACTUALLY HAD ON NEW MEXICO RESIDENTS.

>> Kevin: IF WE COULD GET THE NATIONAL MEDIA ONCE AGAIN TO REALIZE, A, WE ARE NOT ARIZONA AND, B, WE ARE IN THE U.S., WE WOULD REALLY BE DOING SOMETHING GOOD.

THERE IS A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF THAT OF LATE.

WE DID TALK ABOUT THE EXTRAORDINARILY DIFFICULT CONDITIONS FACING WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS.

LAURA PASKUS WITH OUR LAND HAS DONE A LOT ON THAT INCLUDING THEIR COMPENSATION, JUST $15 AN HOUR IN MOST CASES.

THE U.S. HOUSE PASSED A BIPARTISAN BILL TO ENSURE FEDERAL FIREFIGHTERS RECEIVE THE SAME JOB-RELATED DISABILITY AND RETIREMENT BENEFITS OF STATE, COUNTY, MUNICIPAL FIREFIGHTERS.

HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT, 1400, 1500 PEOPLE HERE TRYING TO FEND OFF ALL THESE FLAMES IN ALL THESE LOCATIONS?

>> Tom: IF THE QUESTION IS ABOUT INCREASING AMOUNT OF FUNDING THAT WE PAY FIREFIGHTERS, I WOULD SAY THAT, YES, WE DEFINITELY NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

OF COURSE, THE ECONOMY RIGHT NOW IS KIND OF INTERESTING HOW IT IS A $15 AN HOUR JOB AMIDST THIS TIME OF INFLATION.

AND, SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK -- BUT OF COURSE THE WORK THAT FIREFIGHTERS AND OTHER PUBLIC SERVANTS DO IN LIFE-SAVING SITUATIONS, YOU KNOW, REALLY THOSE ARE SERVICES YOU CAN'T REALLY PUT A PRICE TAG ON.

BUT, YOU KNOW, REALLY GETTING FIREFIGHTERS AND SUPPORTING THEM IN DIFFERENT WAYS TO REALLY HELP SAVE NEW MEXICO COMMUNITIES, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY THERE WILL BE A LITTLE EXTRA INCENTIVE IF THAT IS POSSIBLE FOR ALL THEIR EFFORT.

>> Kevin: YEAH.

CIRCLING BACK TO MY EARLIER POINT, OBVIOUSLY FOLKS CAN DO TWO THINGS AT ONCE, BUT, CATHY, DO YOU THINK THAT A LOT OF THESE CALLS FOR ACCOUNTABILITY AND THE EFFORT THERE MIGHT BE BETTER USED TO HELP BOOST UP THESE FIREFIGHTERS WHO HAVE SEASONAL WORK AND WHEN IT IS NOT FIRE SEASON THEY ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR HEALTH CARE BENEFITS, $15 AN HOUR, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS NOT JUST AN ISSUE IN NEW MEXICO, RIGHT?

WE SEE IT THROUGHOUT THE SOUTHWEST AND HOW DO WE LEAD THAT CHARGE IN THE MIDST OF ALL THIS TOO?

>> McGill: I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, WE DON'T JUST WORK ON ONE THING IF WE ARE GOING TO APPROACH THIS ISSUE HOLISTICALLY.

I HAVE BEEN WITH NEW MEXICO COUNTIES, I BECAME AWARE OF THE FACT THAT MANY COUNTIES IN OUR 33 DON'T HAVE A PROFESSIONAL FIRE SERVICE.

THEY ARE WORKING WITH VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS, SO THEY ARE NOT GETTING PAID ANYTHING.

AND, SO, IT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS AND OBVIOUSLY $15 IS MINIMUM WAGE FOR A REALLY DANGEROUS HAZARDOUS JOB THAT REQUIRES SOME EXPERTISE.

SO, IT IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE CAN AND SHOULD ADDRESS AND THE PUBLIC SHOULD DEMAND IT.

>> Kevin: LET'S MOVE ON TO EVACUATIONS NOW.

SOMETHING A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING AND DEALING WITH.

AND DURING HER BRIEFING EARLIER THIS WEEK, THE GOVERNOR STRESSED THE IMPORTANCE OF NEW MEXICO'S READY, SET, GO POLICY FOR PEOPLE NEAR THESE FIRES, SAYING, SHE FEARS TOO MANY NEW MEXICANS AREN'T FOLLOWING THE BEST PRACTICES.

IS THIS A COMMUNICATION THING?

SHE ALSO MADE A POINT OF MENTIONING THERE HAVEN'T BEEN ANY KNOWN CASES OF LOOTING FOR PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT WANT TO LEAVE THEIR HOUSE BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID THINGS WILL GET STOLEN BUT THIS PUTS FIREFIGHTERS IN DANGER AND EXACERBATES AN ALREADY TERRIBLE SITUATION.

IS THERE ANYTHING MORE WE COULD BE DOING TO TRY TO REINFORCE PEOPLE GETTING OUT WHEN EXPERTS SAY IT IS TIME TO GET OUT.

LET'S GO TO YOU, JESSICA.

SORRY.

>> Onsurez: SO, I THINK YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MORE THAN JUST A DANGER TO YOURSELF.

PEOPLE LOVE THEIR HOMES, THEY LIVE THERE FOR A REASON, THEY ARE EMOTIONALLY CONNECTED TO THEM AND TO THEIR COMMUNITY.

IT IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO CONVINCE THEM, NO MATTER THE DANGER TO THEMSELVES, TO JUST ABANDON THAT AND HOPE FOR THE BEST, WHICH IS BASICALLY WHAT WE ARE TELLING THOSE NOW AFFECTED BY THE HERMIT AND CALF CANYON FIRE, YOU HAVE GOT TO GET OUT AND LEAVE EVERYTHING BEHIND EXCEPT THE NECESSARY ITEMS.

WHAT WE SAW IN RUIDOSO DURING THE MCBRIDE FIRE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE CHOOSING TO STAY AND TO DO WHAT THEY COULD TO SAVE THEIR HOMES REGARDLESS OF HOW WELL IT WAS COMMUNICATED THAT READY, SET, GO WHEN THEY WERE GIVEN THE GO, THEY JUST REFUSED AND PART OF IT WAS FEAR OF LOOTING.

SOME OF IT WAS, YOU KNOW, THEY WANTED TO LEND A HAND, THEY WANTED TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN SAVING THEIR HOMES AND SAVING THEIR COMMUNITY.

I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO THE QUESTION OF COMMUNICATION, WE ARE DEALING WITH FIRES THAT ARE BURNING IN RURAL AREAS WHERE IT IS ALWAYS DIFFICULT TO GET OUT ANY TYPE OF PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENTS.

WE ARE SEEING THAT A LOT MORE ESPECIALLY IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN INVOLVED IN COVERAGE OF A FIRE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN IN A FIRE, I THINK IT IS DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO REALIZE HOW MUCH YOU LOSE, HOW MANY SERVICES YOU ACTUALLY LOSE DURING THE FIRE.

YOU'RE NOT GETTING WATER, AS YOU MENTIONED.

YOU ARE ISOLATED, YOU'RE CUT OFF, THERE IS SOMETIMES NO ELECTRICITY.

SOMETIMES YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A RADIO IN THE HOUSE.

SO WE TALK A LOT ABOUT BEING READY, SET, GO NOW WHEN WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT PREPARING COMMUNITIES IN THE LINE OF FIRE, EXCUSE THE PUN, WAY AHEAD OF TIME.

>> Kevin: ABSOLUTELY.

AGAIN, A QUICK REMINDER THAT AS WE HAVE LEARNED, A LOT OF THE EVACUATION ORDERS DON'T EVEN SO MUCH HAVE TO DO IN THAT MOMENT WITH THE FIRE MOVING TOWARDS BUT IT IS ESCAPE ROUTES OUT, THE ROUTES YOU NEED TO GET OUT.

SO, REALLY IMPORTANT TO HEED ALL OF THAT.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR PANEL.

IN LESS THAN 10 MINUTES WE'LL TAKE UP ONE FINAL DISCUSSION, VIRGIN GALACTIC'S RECENT ANNOUNCEMENT THAT COMMERCIAL SPACE FLIGHTS WON'T HAPPEN AS SOON AS THEY PLANNED.

>> Lou: EXCITING NEWS FOR PARENTS IN NEW MEXICO.

THE STATE IS EXPANDING CHILDCARE BENEFITS FOR 10'S OF THOUSANDS OF NEW MEXICO FAMILIES.

THE NEW CO-PAY WAIVERS ARE FUNDED BY FEDERAL PANDEMIC RELIEF MONEY WHICH THE STATE SAYS WON'T RUN OUT FOR AT LEAST TWO YEARS.

I SAT DOWN WITH THE SECRETARY OF NEW MEXICO EARLY CHILDHOOD AND EDUCATION CARE DEPARTMENT TO FIND OUT WHO IS ELIGIBLE AND HOW THEY CAN START USING THOSE NEW BENEFITS.

NEW MEXICO IS INCREASING CHILD CARE SUBSIDIES THAT ARE ALREADY THE MOST GENEROUS AND BROADLY AVAILABLE IN THE U.S.

THANKS FOR JOINING US, SECRETARY GROGINSKY.

THE NEW MEXICO INSTITUTED THESE POLICIES OR DIFFERENT POLICIES LAST JUNE, THAT BROUGHT DOWN CHILDCARE COSTS FOR LOW AND MINIMAL INCOME FAMILIES.

THESE NEW WAIVERS ARE GOING TO HELP FAMILIES LOWER THOSE COSTS EVEN MORE.

WHO IS ELIGIBLE FOR THESE WAIVERS AND HOW MUCH COULD THEY SAVE?

>> Groginsky: THANK YOU, LOU, AND THE FAMILIES WHO ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THIS WAIVER ARE FAMILIES WHO ARE WORKING, GOING TO SCHOOL AND NEED HELP PAYING FOR CHILDCARE UP TO 400 PERCENT OF THE FEDERAL POVERTY LEVEL.

FOR A FAMILY OF FOUR THAT IS 111,000 ANNUAL GROSS INCOME.

SO WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS WE HAVE SAID THE COST OF CHILDCARE IS OUT OF REACH FOR MOST FAMILIES SO WE HAVE WAIVED PARENT CO-PAYMENTS NOW UNTIL NEXT YEAR.

AND, AGAIN, UNDER GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM, WE HOPE TO MAKE UNIVERSAL ACCESS TO UNIVERSAL EARLY CARE AND EDUCATION AVAILABLE TO ALL FAMILIES IN NEW MEXICO WHO NEED IT.

>> Lou: HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT DOING THAT?

HOW SAID THAT YOU HOPE TO DO THAT IN THE FUTURE.

WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE?

>> Groginsky: WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO MAKE THE INVESTMENT IN NEW MEXICO FAMILIES AND INTO THE CHILDCARE PROVIDER TO SUPPORT THEM.

WE KNOW THAT IN NEW MEXICO RIGHT NOW WE HAVE MANY COMMUNITIES WHERE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH AVAILABLE CARE FOR THE FAMILIES WHO NEED IT, ESPECIALLY FOR INFANTS AND TODDLERS AND EVEN SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN.

WHILE WE SUPPORT THE FAMILIES NOW WHO HAVE ACCESS AND USING CHILDCARE WE ALSO ANNOUNCED LAST WEEK WE ARE GOING TO HELP BUILD MORE SUPPLY OF CHILDCARE ACROSS THE STATE.

>> Lou: GREAT.

HOW DID YOU DETERMINE THE INCOME ELIGIBILITY LEVELS FOR THIS SUBSIDY?

>> Groginsky: WE LOOKED AT -- LAST YEAR WE EXTENDED ELIGIBILITY UP TO 350% AND FAMILIES COULD STAY ON THAT ASSISTANCE UNTIL 400% BUT THE GOVERNOR SAID, WE NEED TO DO MORE FOR FAMILIES NOW AND FAMILIES AT THOSE LEVELS STILL NEED HELP.

CHILDCARE FOR AN INFANT IN A HIGH QUALITY CENTER COSTS $1500 A MONTH.

MOST FAMILIES CAN'T AFFORD THAT.

OUR ABILITY TO USE FEDERAL RELIEF DOLLARS UNDER GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM'S LEADERSHIP TO SAY, THIS IS A CRITICAL SUPPORT THAT FAMILIES NEED RIGHT NOW IN NEW MEXICO SO THEY CAN TAKE THOSE DOLLARS AND INVEST THEM IN THEIR FAMILIES, BUILD THEIR OWN FAMILY WEALTH AND BUILD TOWARDS BUYING A HOME, SUPPORTING THEIR CHILD IN OTHER WAYS.

SO WE ARE VERY HAPPY WE COULD MAKE THIS ANNOUNCEMENT AND MAKE THIS CHANGE FOR FAMILIES IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Lou: AS YOU MENTIONED, THE FEDERAL COVID 19 RELIEF MONEY, THAT IS WHERE A LOT OF THIS FUNDING IS COMING FROM, THAT RUNS THROUGH JULY.

WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT?

>> Groginsky: THE RELIEF DOLLARS THAT WE ARE USING ARE ACTUALLY AVAILABLE TO NEW MEXICO UNTIL SEPTEMBER 30TH, 2024.

WE HAVE RIGHT NOW JUST SAID, LET'S TAKE THIS NEXT YEAR AT A TIME AND SEE HOW MANY FAMILIES NEED THE ASSISTANCE AND WE HOPE THESE DOLLARS WILL EXTEND AS LONG AS -- UNTIL SEPTEMBER OF 2024.

BUT WE WILL AT LEAST CONTINUE WAIVING PARENT CO-PAYMENTS UNTIL JUNE OF 2023.

>> Lou: OKAY.

I HAVE THAT HERE.

ANOTHER EXPANSION STARTED MAY 1 AND RUNS THROUGH JUNE 2023, WAIVING CHILD CO-PAYS FOR HOUSEHOLDS AT FOUR TIMES THE POVERTY LINE.

YOU MENTIONED THAT.

AND IT HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN 350.

IT CAUGHT MY EYE.

400 TIMES, OR FOUR TIMES, I SHOULD SAY, THE POVERTY LINE.

IS THE POVERTY LINE TOO LOW?

DOES THIS MAKE THIS DIFFICULT OR DO YOU JUST CALCULATE THOSE REGARDLESS.

>> Groginsky: YEAH.

I THINK WE THINK THAT THE POVERTY LINE IS TOO LOW SO FAMILIES MAKING 111,000 OF GROSS INCOME, HAVING TO PAY 22,000 A YEAR FOR THEIR INFANT TO RECEIVE CARE, YOU KNOW, THAT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE.

THAT IS GOING TO PUT THEM BEHIND IN BEING ABLE TO SAVE FOR HOUSING, FOR OTHER THINGS THEY CAN DO TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILY'S LONG-TERM GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT.

WE BELIEVE THIS INVESTMENT IS CRITICAL.

WE WANT TO SUSTAIN THESE KIND OF INVESTMENTS IN NEW MEXICO FAMILIES.

GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM REALLY KNOWS THAT WHEN FAMILIES STRUGGLE TO FIND CARE OR PAY FOR CARE, THAT THAT PUTS STRESS ON THE FAMILY, THAT PUTS STRESS ON THE RELATIONSHIP AND WE KNOW THAT WHEN THERE IS STRESS IN A FAMILY AND AT HOME, THAT IMPACTS DEVELOPMENT AND OVERALL WELL BEING OF THE YOUNG CHILDREN BUT ALSO OF THE FAMILY AS A WHOLE.

THESE ARE THE KIND OF POLICIES THAT PUT FAMILIES AND CHILDREN AT THE CENTER.

>> Lou: UNDERSTOOD.

NOW, HOW CAN PEOPLE ACQUIRE THESE CO-PAY WAIVERS?

DO THEY HAVE TO SEEK THEM OUT THEMSELVES?

IS THERE SOME SORT OF OUTREACH PROGRAM OR SOME SORT OF OUTREACH MECHANISM IN PLACE?

>> Groginsky: WE HAVE CHILDCARE ASSISTANCE OFFICES ALL OVER THE STATE AND THEY CAN GO TO THE WEBSITE AND CLICK ON "AM I ELIGIBLE" AND RIGHT THERE FAMILIES CAN FILL OUT THE APPLICATION, PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION AND SOMEBODY WILL FOLLOW UP WITH THEM TO MAKE SURE ALL THE PAPERWORK IS IN.

YOU STILL DO HAVE TO BE WORKING OR IN SCHOOL AND HOW MUCH CARE YOU GET ACCESS TO IS DRIVEN BY HOW MUCH YOU NEED.

SO, WE ARE EXCITED TO BE ABLE TO OFFER THAT AND ALSO GOING TO BE HOLDING ENROLLMENT FAIRS AROUND THE STATE, MAY 14 AND MAY 21.

WE WILL RELEASE SOME OF THAT INFORMATION, SO FAMILIES CAN COME TO THOSE SITES, GET ENROLLED, HAVE THEIR ELIGIBILITY DETERMINED AND START GETTING ASSISTANCE, REAL MONEY BACK IN THEIR POCKETS TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES IN OTHER IMPORTANT WAYS.

>> Lou: OKAY.

NOW, DO YOU HAVE AN ESTIMATE ON EXACTLY HOW MANY FAMILIES THIS EXPANSION WOULD COVER, LIKE, A NUMBER?

>> Groginsky: WE ARE ESTIMATING AROUND 30,000 FAMILIES ACROSS NEW MEXICO FOR BENEFITS.

I JUST TALKED TO THE STAFF TODAY.

WE HAD 500 APPLICANTS COME INTO THE "AM I ELIGIBLE" JUST THIS PAST WEEK.

THAT IS EXCITING.

WE KNOW THERE ARE FAMILIES RIGHT NOW ENROLLED IN CHILDCARE THAT ARE STRUGGLING TO MAKE THOSE PAYMENTS AND ARE CONSIDERING WHETHER I HAVE TO PULL MY CHILD OUT OF CHILDCARE OR HOW AM I GOING TO JUGGLE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE RESOURCES.

WE ARE HOPING THAT THEY ARE GOING TO LEARN ABOUT THIS AND THEY ARE GOING TO COME IN AND GET THE ASSISTANCE THEY NEED.

WE ARE ALSO EXCITED BECAUSE WE ARE THE ONLY STATE IN THE NATION THAT HAS BASED OUR CHILDCARE RATES ON WHAT IT COST TO DELIVER THAT CARE THAT OUR CHILDCARE PROVIDERS ARE GOING TO HAVE THE MONEY THEY NEED TO FOCUS ON QUALITY, TO FOCUS ON THEIR STAFF AND PAYING THEIR STAFF COMMENSURATE WITH THE VALUE THEY ARE GIVING TO THE CHILDREN AND FAMILIES AND TO OUR COMMUNITY ACROSS THE STATE.

>> Lou: WE ARE SEEING STAFFING ISSUES IN A WIDE RANGE OF FIELDS IN NEW MEXICO.

YOU NAME IT, PROBABLY SHORT STAFFED.

LAST WEEK'S ANNOUNCEMENT ALSO EXPANDED GRANTS TO CHILDCARE CENTERS, SUBSIDY TO CHILDCARE WORKERS, PURSUING PROFESSIONAL TRAINING.

DOES THE STATE NEED MORE OF THESE WORKERS TOO?

>> Groginsky: ABSOLUTELY.

EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATORS ARE IN HIGH DEMAND AND THAT IS WHY WE ALSO RELEASED THE STUDENT SUCCESS APPLICATIONS TO OUR HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS SO THAT STUDENTS ENROLLED IN EARLY CHILDHOOD TEACHER PREP PROGRAMS, THEIR INFANT FAMILY STUDIES PROGRAMS CAN GET ACCESS UP TO $2,000 PER SEMESTER IN FY22, THE FALL OF '22 AND THE SPRING OF '23, TO SUPPORT THINGS LIKE TRANSPORTATION, RENT, OTHER COSTS THAT EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATORS HAVE AS THEY ARE TRYING TO WORK FULL-TIME AND ALSO GO TO SCHOOL.

SO, WE ARE EXCITED AGAIN USING FEDERAL RELIEF DOLLARS TO ENHANCE AND HELP ACCELERATE HOPEFULLY COMPLETION OF THEIR AA OR BACHELOR DEGREE IN EARLY CHILDHOOD.

>> Lou: GREAT.

THANKS SO MUCH.

SOUNDS LIKE GREAT STUFF.

THANKS SECRETARY GROGINSKY FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR INFORMATION.

>> Kevin: WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE OPINION PANEL ONE FINAL TIME THIS WEEK.

VIRGIN GALACTIC IS ANNOUNCING A DELAY IN ITS PLANS FOR COMMERCIAL SPACE FLIGHTS.

THE COMPANY SAYS SUPPLY CHAIN AND LABOR ISSUES MAKE 2023 A MORE FEASIBLE GOAL AND THIS PROJECT OBVIOUSLY HAS MAJOR IMPLICATIONS IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO.

JESSICA, ALTHOUGH MAYBE NOT ALL THE WAY DOWN INTO YOUR AREA IN CARLSBAD, BUT HOW MUCH OF A BLOW IS THIS FOR THAT PART OF THE STATE AS ONE OF THE BIG ECONOMIC DRIVERS?

>> Onsurez: RIGHT.

SO WE LOOK AT IT AS A REVENUE GENERATING OPERATION AND SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT IT FROM THAT STANDPOINT, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A BLOW.

WE INVESTED IN THIS IDEA OF SPACE TOURISM FOR NOT ONLY A VISION OF THE FUTURE BUT FOR THE BOOST IT WOULD GIVE TO OUR ECONOMY.

WHEN YOU SEE IT STRUGGLING, YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE GOING TO BE IMPLICATIONS FOR US AT A REVENUE LEVEL.

>> Kevin: ISN'T PART OF THIS, TOM, THAT VIRGIN SEEMS TO STILL BE, IN TERMS OF THAT ECONOMIC DRIVER, THE ONLY THING THAT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT, THEY REPORTED 93 MILLION-DOLLARS IN LOSSES IN THE LAST QUARTER.

BUT, I THINK, THAT THERE IS A LOT ELSE GOING ON THERE THAT MAY BE HELPING WITH THAT ECONOMIC SITUATION THAT WE ARE NOT HEARING ABOUT.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> Tom: MOST DEFINITELY.

BY MEANS OF DISCLOSURE, MY FIRM DOES A LOT OF WORK IN THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ARENA WHICH INCLUDES PARTS OF THE SPACEPORT IN A PERIPHERAL, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SPACEPORT AS A WHOLE IT IS MUCH MORE THAN VIRGIN GALACTIC.

OBVIOUSLY, VIRGIN GALACTIC IS THE PREMIER TENANT AS FAR AS GETTING THE MOST ATTENTION BUT THERE ARE OTHER MISSIONS OUT THERE.

SPIN LAUNCH IS A FASCINATING HYPERSONIC CENTRIFUGE THAT SHOOTS SATELLITES INTO LOW ORBIT.

THERE ARE A COUPLE OF OTHER VERY INTERESTING MISSIONS OUT THERE AS WELL.

BUT, I THINK, REALLY, LOOKING AT IT FROM A NEW MEXICO PERSPECTIVE, HOW DOES THE SPACEPORT FIT INTO THE LARGER MICROCOSM OF THE COMMUNITY OF AEROSPACE AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE AEROSPACE INFLUENCE IN ALBUQUERQUE, SANDIA NATIONAL LABS, THE INFLUENCE THAT LOS ALAMOS HAS, AS WELL, AND A NUMBER OF THE PRIVATE ENTITIES, YOU KNOW, IT IS REALLY PROBABLY THE MOST VISIBLE PART.

AND WE JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO SEE THOSE VERTICAL LAUNCHES LIKE CAPE CANAVERAL BUT THAT IS NOT HOW THE SPACEPORT IS SET UP.

IT IS SET UP TO BE MUCH MORE OF A MISSION DRIVEN OPERATION AS OPPOSED TO GIANT SPECTACLES, BUT THEY ARE DOING WELL IN SPACEPORT IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT MISSIONS TAKING PLACE OUT THERE.

>> Kevin: IT WAS ABOUT A YEAR AGO THAT WE HAD THAT FIRST LAUNCH WHERE RICHARD BRANSON HIMSELF WENT UP AND REALLY NOT MUCH SINCE.

IN PART BECAUSE OF REVELATIONS AFTER THE FACT THAT THERE WERE SOME PROBLEMS ON THAT FLIGHT AND THEY HAD TO WORK WITH GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS TO SORT OF GET THINGS IN ORDERS.

MEANWHILE, JEFF BEZOS AND BLUE ORIGIN, THEY HAVE CONDUCTED FOUR SUCCESSFUL PASSENGER FLIGHTS TO SPACE SINCE LAST SUMMER.

SO, WHAT DO WE MAKE OF ALL THIS IN TERMS OF VIRGIN'S VIABILITY, CATHY.

>> McGill: SO, I AM JUST GOING TO SAY, THAT, YOU KNOW, I HATE SOUNDING LIKE, OH, YOU KNOW, WHY ARE WE DOING THAT OR GET OFF MY LAWN KIND OF THING, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE HYPERSONIC CENTRIFUGE COMMENT.

I AM GLAD FOR THE EDUCATION AROUND IT.

BUT IT JUST SEEMS A BIT LIKE WAITING FOR THE GO AT THE SPACEPORT, LIKE IS THIS REALLY EVER GOING TO HAPPEN AND LEARNING MORE ABOUT THE LOSSES AND OBVIOUSLY VIRGIN GALACTIC IS OUT THERE AS THE PREMIER TENANT.

SO MAYBE WE NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT THE OTHER TENANTS ARE GOING TO DO AND HOW WE GET A RETURN ON THE 220 MILLION THAT WE MADE AS A STATE.

BUT, I THINK FOR A LOT OF LAY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT WORKING IN THAT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT SPACE, THEY ARE LOOKING AT THIS LIKE, SPACE TOURISM, 450,000, HALF A MILLION DOLLARS FOR SOMEBODY WHO IS VERY WEALTHY TO GO UP IN SPACE, DOESN'T MEAN A WHOLE BUNCH TO MOST PEOPLE.

>> Kevin: IT IS A HIGH PRICE TAG.

WE TALKED ABOUT THAT A LOT AND AGAIN WORTH REMINDING FOLKS, RIGHT JESSICA, THIS WAS A PROJECT FUNDED BY TAXPAYER DOLLARS.

SO, THERE IS AN EXPECTATION OF SOME SUCCESS HERE TO REPAY THAT INVESTMENT, RIGHT?

>> Onsurez: YES, I THINK CATHY HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.

FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT INSIDERS AND NOT PAYING ATTENTION AND JUST READING THE HEADLINES, THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE SETBACK OR THE DELAY IN THE COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS INTO 2023 AS, YOU KNOW, AS A SHRUG.

FOR THOSE OF US WHO HAVE SOME INSIGHT INTO WHAT IS HAPPENING, IT SEEMS TO INDICATE PROBLEMS OR TROUBLE ESPECIALLY AS YOU SAID, KEVIN, YOU LOOK AT WHAT BLUE ORIGIN IS DOING, BUT I THINK TOM WAS VERY INSIGHTFUL WHEN HE POINTED OUT THERE IS MORE HAPPENING THERE THAN WE TEND TO KNOW ABOUT.

MAYBE THE BIGGER QUESTION IS HOW DO WE DO A BETTER JOB OF TALKING ABOUT THIS NEW INDUSTRY WITH YOUR EVERYDAY AVERAGE NEW MEXICAN AND EDUCATING THEM ABOUT THE FUTURE BENEFITS, QUESTION MARK, THERE, BUT HOPEFULLY, TO THIS WHOLE PROJECT.

>> Kevin: AGAIN, DESPITE THE DELAYS, AND THAT COMPETITION FROM BLUE ORIGIN, VIRGIN GALACTIC MAINTAINS THAT ITS DELTA CLASS ROCKETS WILL BE THE BEST AND MOST SUSTAINABLY DESIGNED TOURISM SPACECRAFT.

YOU THINK THAT IS ENOUGH OF A TALKING POINT TO HELP MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE?

I AM NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT A SUSTAINABLE SPACE VEHICLE IS, WHAT THAT MEANS, BUT, WHAT DO YOU THINK, CATHY?

>> McGill: I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW AND I AM JUST HOPING THAT WE GET SOME MORE EDUCATION ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING AND IF IT IS GOING TO BE THE BEST, YOU KNOW, I NEED TO SEE IT.

RIGHT NOW I FEEL LIKE IT IS LIKE A THEATER OF THE ABSURD.

>> Kevin: TOM, WHAT ABOUT YOU?

CAN YOU PICK UP ON THAT?

>> Tom: NOT NECESSARILY ON THE THEATER OF THE ABSURD BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES THAT ARE TAKING PLACE OUT THERE.

YOU KNOW, THEY ARE CAUGHT IN A CATCH 22 BECAUSE THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT MISSIONS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE OUT THERE.

IT IS LIKE TALKING ABOUT WHAT SANDIA NATIONAL LABS DOES OR LOS ALAMOS.

THERE ARE A LOT OF MISSIONS OUT THERE THAT ARE BEHIND THE GATE.

THEY JUST CAN'T TALK ABOUT.

BUT I AGREE BOTH CATHRYN AND JESSICA, GREAT POINTS, THAT IT NEEDS TO GO JUST BEYOND, WELL TRUST US, THERE IS STUFF GOING ON OUT THERE.

THEY REALLY HAVE TO FIND A PLACE, I THINK, ALL OF THESE ENTITIES THAT HAVE THESE SECURE OPERATIONS IS FIND THAT MIDDLE GROUND WHERE YOU CAN PROVIDE JUST ENOUGH INTEREST OR INFORMATION TO LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT THIS JUST ISN'T A WASTE OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS, TO GET THAT INFORMATION OUT WITHOUT GIVING AWAY ALL OF THE REASONS WHY, YOU KNOW, THEY MIGHT BE DOING MISSIONS THERE.

>> Kevin: THAT IS A GREAT REMINDER TOO, JESSICA, TURN TO YOU REAL QUICK ON THIS AS WE CLOSE OUT.

THE TRANSPARENCY ISSUE HAS BEEN SOMETHING AROUND SPACEPORT AS WELL, BECAUSE THESE LEASE AGREEMENTS AND THINGS ARE NOT PUBLIC FOR THE MOST PART.

AND, THERE ARE PROPRIETARY SECRETS IN THERE AND THAT IS THE ARGUMENT THAT IS MADE BUT DO YOU THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A STRONGER PUSH TO SEE THE DOLLARS AND CENTS THAT ARE COMING IN AND GOING OUT AT THE SPACEPORT?

>> Onsurez: I AM ALWAYS GOING TO SAY YES TO TRANSPARENCY, NO MATTER WHAT IT IS.

SO, YES, THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS YES.

I THINK ESPECIALLY BECAUSE PEOPLE TEND TO ASSOCIATE THE TAXPAYER INVESTMENT THAT WE MADE INTO THIS AS THE BACKBONE OF THIS INDUSTRY IN NEW MEXICO, WE WANT TO SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING.

THEY WANT TO KNOW THERE WILL BE SOME SORT OF GROWTH, THAT RETURN ON INVESTMENT THAT CATHY MENTIONED EARLIER.

WHEN IT COMES TO TRANSPARENCY, WE ALL REALIZE THERE ARE INDUSTRY SECRETS THAT NEED TO BE KEPT, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THERE AREN'T CERTAIN ITEMS THAT SHOULDN'T BE SHARED OR BROUGHT TO LIGHT.

I THINK IT IS FAIR TO ASK TO SEE THE TENANT LEASES, TO HAVE AT LEAST A GENERAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE INVESTMENT THAT IS BEING PUT INTO THIS SPACEPORT AMERICA.

>> Kevin: ALL RIGHT, THANKS.

THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE GOT.

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>> Lou: WITH WILDFIRES AND WIND AND DROUGHT, NEW MEXICANS HAVE PLENTY TO WORRY ABOUT.

CLIMATE ANXIETY IS SOMETHING MANY OF US GRAPPLE WITH, WORRYING ABOUT THE FUTURE.

ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA PASKUS TRACKED DOWN AUTHOR SARAH JAQUETTE RAY, TO TALK ABOUT HER BOOK, EXPLAINING CLIMATE ANXIETY AND HOW TO COPE WITH IT.

>> Laura: PROFESSOR RAY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

>> Ray: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Laura: EVEN PEOPLE WHO AREN'T BEING EVACUATED FOR A FIRE OR FACING WATER SHORTAGES THIS YEAR, WE ALL HAVE EMOTIONAL RESPONSES TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

WHAT IS CLIMATE ANXIETY THAT YOU WRITE ABOUT IN YOUR BOOK?

>> Ray: THERE IS PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERIENCING IMMEDIATE CLIMATE OR ENVIRONMENTAL TRAUMAS LIKE SEA LEVEL RISE OR NATURAL DISASTER, VARIOUS KINDS OF IMMEDIATE THINGS.

AND ARGUABLY MANY SCIENTISTS WOULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE COVID-19 IS AN IMMEDIATE CLIMATE DISASTER TOO THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING, SOME MORE INTIMATELY THAN OTHERS, BUT THAT IS ONE SET OF CLIMATE ANXIETIES, FORMS OF SORT OF IMMEDIATE DISTRESS AND IMMEDIATE THREAT TO LIVELIHOOD AND LIFE.

BUT ANOTHER KIND OF CLIMATE ANXIETY THAT ALSO SORT OF TOOK ME BY SURPRISE A LITTLE BIT WHEN I FIRST DISCOVERED IT, IS SORT OF ANTICIPATORY ANXIETY ABOUT WHAT COULD BE HAPPENING IN THE FUTURE.

THIS COMES FROM ALL THE FORECASTS COMING FROM SCIENTISTS LIKE THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL PANEL ON CLIMATE CHANGE, THE IPCC REPORTS THAT HAVE COME OUT EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS, AND THERE IS DIFFERENT MODELS COMING OUT FROM SCIENTISTS AND ACTUALLY REPORTED OVER THE SIXTH GREAT EXTENSION AS ELIZABETH KOLBERT CALLS IT.

SO THERE IS A SENSE OF WHAT IS LIFE GOING TO BE LIKE IN THE NEXT 15, 20 YEARS THAT IS IN MY LIFETIME.

YOUNG PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR ARE THINKING ABOUT THIS.

WILL THE PLANET BE INHABITABLE?

WILL WE HAVE FOOD?

WILL THE ECOSYSTEMS SERVICES THAT THE ENTIRE ECONOMIC SYSTEM WE LIVE ON BE FUNCTIONING?

AND THE THOUGHT OF THOSE THINGS ALL FALLING APART CREATES CLIMATE ANXIETY, THE SENSE OF, YOU KNOW, THE LIFE AS WE KNOW IT, THE CONDITIONS FOR HEALTH AND THRIVING AND FOR EATING AND BREATHING AND DRINKING FRESH WATER AND HAVING OUR HOUSES, YOU KNOW, NOT FALL APART OR NOT BURN DOWN, THAT KIND OF UNCERTAINTY, WHAT GLENN ALBRECHT CALLS GLOBAL DREAD IS REALLY WHAT CLIMATE ANXIETY IS.

THE APA DEFINES ECO ANXIETY AS CHRONIC FEAR OF ENVIRONMENTAL DOOM BUT I WOULD SAY CLIMATE ANXIETY IS MORE SPECIFIC AROUND THE WAYS THAT PEOPLE ARE RESPONDING TO NEWS AROUND WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH CLIMATE CHANGE, PARTICULARLY.

>> Laura: YOU WRITE ABOUT HOW SEEING OURSELVES AS PART OF A COLLECTIVE AND ACTING COLLECTIVELY VERSUS TRYING DO THINGS INDIVIDUALLY IS SO IMPORTANT.

AND IT MADE ME THINK OF JOANNA MACY WHEN SHE TALKS ABOUT GROUP ACTION AND GROUP WORK.

WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF THIS COLLECTIVE ACTION AND THIS GROUP WORK, THIS RELATIONSHIP BUILDING?

>> Ray: THAT IS A REALLY GREAT QUESTION AND THERE ARE MANY FACTORS TO THAT.

SOME PEOPLE SAY THE ROOT CAUSE OF OUR SOCIAL CRISES ARE THE SAME AS THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE CLIMATE CHANGE CRISIS, WHICH IS DISCONNECTION, LACK OF COMMUNITY.

MANY PEOPLE FEEL YOU LOOK ROBERT PUTNAM'S BOWLING ALONE AND YOU LOOK AT THE CRISIS OF CIVIL AND THE CRISIS OF COMMUNITY THAT HAS BEEN SORT OF ENGINEERED BY THE WAY WE DESIGN NOT JUST ARCHITECTURE AND CITIES AND OUR AUTOMOBILES AND HIGHWAYS BUT ALSO WE SORT OF CREATE A CULTURE OF INDIVIDUALISM IN AMERICAN SOCIETY THAT YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN AND GO OUT AND SET YOURSELF FREE FROM ALL THE FETTERS OF YOUR FAMILY AND OTHERS AND THERE IS A REAL FETISH OF THAT IN AMERICAN CULTURE.

THERE IS A LOT OF BENEFITS TO THAT, I AM NOT DENYING ENTIRELY THERE IS SOME VALUE TO THAT.

BUT, IT HAS HAD THE UNFORTUNATE EFFECT OF MAKING US THINK WE ARE ALONE IN OUR ACTION FOR THE PLANET.

SO THAT IS ONE WAY THAT IT MAKES US -- IT DISEMPOWERS US.

IT HELPS US NOT ABLE TO SEE -- MAKES US NOT ABLE TO SEE THE WAYS THAT OUR ACTIONS ARE IN CONCERT ALREADY WITH A HUGE COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE, WHAT PAUL HAWKEN CALLS THE BLESSED UNREST OR SOME GROUNDSWELL.

REBECCA SOLNIT WRITES ABOUT THIS.

ALSO IT MAKES US NOT ABLE TO TAKE A BREAK WHEN WE NEED TO REBUILD OUR RESOURCES.

MANY PEOPLE, YOUNG PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR, FEEL LIKE THEY NEED TO BURN THE MIDNIGHT OIL AND NOT SLEEP IN ORDER TO DO THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT IS NECESSARY BECAUSE THE PROBLEM IS SO URGENT, LIKE THIS URGENCY OF THE PROBLEM, THAT THE NEXT 10 YEARS MATTERS SO MUCH WE OFTEN HEAR, MAKING PEOPLE FEEL LIKE, OKAY, I'LL WORK MY TAIL OFF UNTIL THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED AND THEN I'LL BE ABLE TO RELAX.

NO TIME FOR REST.

AND INDIVIDUALISM SHOWS UP ALSO IN ACTIVISM TOO, IN A WAY THAT UNDERMINES OUR ABILITY TO KEEP ENGAGED IN THE ISSUES FOR THE LONG-TERM OF OUR LIFE.

THE PROBLEM IS NOT GOING TO BE SOLVED IN 10 YEARS.

IT IS GOING TO GO ON FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES, SO, SEEING OURSELVES IN COLLECTIVE IS PARTLY A SORT OF CRITICALITY THINKING TOOL TO KEEP US ENERGIZED, RIGHT?

LET'S FOCUS ON THE FACT WE ARE AMPLIFIED IN ALL THESE WAYS.

I DO THIS NETWORK MAPPING EXERCISE WITH MY KIDS SOMETIMES WHERE I HELP THEM SEE ALL THE THINGS THAT SUPPORT THEM AND THEY SUPPORT AND ASK HOW CAN THEY ENHANCE THOSE SUPPORTS.

AND ALSO THERE IS SOME REALLY INTERESTING NEUROSCIENCE ABOUT THIS.

THAT THERE IS SORT OF THE MIRROR NEURONS THAT HAPPENS, THE THINGS THAT HAPPEN HORMONALLY AND CHEMICALLY WHEN WE ARE ACTUALLY IN SPACE WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND WHEN WE ARE DOING THINGS WITH OTHER PEOPLE.

AND I FIND IT REALLY FASCINATING THAT THERE IS THINGS THAT HAPPEN, LIKE IF YOU DO AN MRI, YOU COULD TAKE A PICTURE OF PEOPLES' BRAINS WHEN THEY ARE WITH PEOPLE VERSUS WHEN THEY ARE ON ZOOM OR WHEN THEY ARE ON ZOOM VERSUS WHEN THEY ARE ALONE, JUST THE SHEER ACT OF BEING WITH PEOPLE, DOING SOMETHING COLLECTIVELY, ENHANCES ALL OF THE GOOD FEEL THAT WE MIGHT NEED TO HAVE CHEMICALLY IN OUR BODIES.

SO THERE IS REALLY COOL STUFF THAT HAPPENS THERE, JUST SEEING JUST THE NEUROSCIENCE IN IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

>> Paskus: THANKS TO SAYING YES TO THIS INTERVIEW.

I REALLY HAVE APPRECIATED THE CONVERSATION.

I REALLY RECOMMEND YOUR BOOK TO ANYBODY WHO IS THINKING ABOUT THESE ISSUES RIGHT NOW.

SO, THANK YOU.

>> Ray: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I APPRECIATE TALKING TO YOU.

>> Lou: YOU CAN GO TO OUR WEBSITE TO WATCH LAURA'S FULL INTERVIEW WITH PROFESSOR RAY.

IT INCLUDES ADVICE ON HOW TO PRIORITIZE YOUR ACTIONS AND COPE WITH CLIMATE ANXIETY.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.

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