>> CATHY: AS THE SUMMER OF 2023 BEGINS, MOST MINNESOTANS HAVE RETURNED TO PRE-COVID ACTIVITY LEVELS AND BEHAVIOR PATTERNS.

THE NUMBER OF CASES IN THE STATE IS LOWER THAN WE'VE SEEN IN NEARLY TWO YEARS.

DOES THIS MEAN WE'RE DONE WITH COVID?

LET'S ASK DR. MIKE OSTERHOLM.

HE HEADS UP THE U OF M'S CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY.

OSTERHOLM IS A WORLD-RENOWNED EPIDEMIOLOGIST.

WELCOME BACK IN STUDIO AGAIN.

NICE TO SEE YOU.

>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

COLORADO SO TRANSMISSION LEVELS SEEM LOW, SEEMS LIKE GOOD NEWS.

>> IT IS.

WE'RE CLEARLY IN THE BEST PLACE WE'VE BEEN IN THE PANDEMIC SINCE THE EARLIEST DAYS OF 2020.

I THINK THE QUESTION WE ALL HAVE, IS THIS WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE FROM HERE GOING ON AND I THINK THAT'S THE REAL CHALLENGE BECAUSE, FOR EXAMPLE, WE'VE SEEN DEATHS GO UP BY 7% IN THE UNITED STATES THIS WEEK.

NEW YORK CITY IS REPORTING SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN ACTIVITY.

SO I THINK AT THIS POINT THE QUESTION IS, IS THIS ABOUT TALKING ABOUT HAVING THREE OR FOUR-FOOT SNOWFALLS OR IS THIS ONE- OR TWO-INCH THAT YOU OCCASIONALLY GET FOUR INCHES WITH.

WE DON'T KNOW YET.

I THINK THERE'S NOT HIGH LIKELIHOODS OF HAVING A BIG BURST OF CASES AGAIN BUT IT'S STILL PERSISTS AND FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITIONS OR OLDER, THIS STILL CAN BE A VERY SERIOUS IF NOT LIFE-THREATENING DISEASE.

>> Eric: I THINK THE SIXTH BOOSTER IS AVAILABLE NOW FOR OLDER ADULTS WHO QUALIFY.

IS THERE ANY DATA STUDIES ON HOW EFFECTIVE THE VACCINES ARE?

>> THIS IS ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WE HAVE IS TRYING TO TALK ABOUT THESE VACCINES IN A WAY THAT PEOPLE AREN'T CONFUSED AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT, THESE ARE GOOD VACCINES.

THEY HAVE SAVED MILLIONS OF LIVES BUT THEY'RE NOT GREAT VACCINES.

WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THE DURABILITY OF THE VACCINE IS LIMITED.

A STUDY THAT CAME OUT THIS PAST WEEK BY THE CDC AND HEALTH PARTNERS HERE IN MINNESOTA WERE ONE OF THE MAJOR CONTRIBUTORS TO THE DATA FOR THIS STUDY SHOWED THAT IF YOU GOT THE BIVALENT BOOSTER IN THE FIRST WEEKS AFTER YOU GOT IT, YOU HAD ABOUT A 62% PROTECTION AGAINST HOSPITALIZATION.

NOW, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, GOOD BUT NOT GREAT.

BUT THE PROBLEM WAS, BY ABOUT FOUR TO SIX MONTHS OUT, YOU WERE DOWN TO LESS THAN 0% PROTECTION.

AND SO THIS WANES OVER TIME SO THIS REALLY SPEAKS TO GETTING PEOPLE BOOSTED EVERY SIX MONTHS WHICH IS RIGHT,000 N AMERICA NOT GOING TO HAM.

WE HAVE A WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE OVER 65 THAT SHOULD BE GETTING THEIR BOOSTER RIGHT NOW AND ONLY 42% HAVE IN THE LAST FIVE MONTHS SO I THINK WE HAVE SOME CHALLENGES AHEAD WITH THESE VACCINES AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS OUR CENTER IS WORKING ON IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO HELP OVERSEE THE DEVELOPMENT OF NEW AND BETTER COVID VACCINES.

>> Cathy: TALK TO US ABOUT THE INTERNATIONAL COVID ROAD MAP THAT YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO WORK ON.

THAT'S INTERESTING.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE RECOGNIZE THAT PART OF THE PROBLEM OF TRYING TO GET NEW VACCINES IS -- AS ONE OF OUR FAVORITE MINNESOTA AUTHORS ONCE SAID, IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING, ANY ROAD WILL GET YOU THERE AND SO SEVERAL YEARS AGO, WE ACTUALLY PUT TOGETHER AN INTERNATIONAL GROUP WITH SUPPORT FROM THE WELCOME TRUST FOR INFLUENZA VACCINES TO ACTUALLY LOOK AT WHAT WOULD IT TAKE, AND WE HAD VERY MEASURABLE GOALS.

THIS MONTH'S YOU HAD TO DO THIS, THIS MONTH THAT.

AND WHEN THE COVID SITUATION UNFOLDED EARLY ON, I SAID, THIS IS GOING TO BE CRITICAL, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE BETTER GUIDANCE ON HOW TO HELP DIRECT TO GET BETTER COVID VOC SEASONS.

SO WE PUT TOGETHER A GROUP OF 50 INTERNATIONAL EXPERTS SUPPORTED BY THE ROCKEFELLER FOUNDATION AND GATES FOUNDATION AND OVER THE OURSE OF ABOUT 9 MONTHS, WE PUTS TOGETHER THIS VERY DETAILED ROAD MAP THAT HAS ALL THESE MEASURABLE ITEMS HOW DO WE KNOW IF WE'RE GOING FROM STEP ONE TO STEP 2 O STEP 3 SO THAT'S IN PLACE RIGHT NOW AND WE'RE MONITORING AND FOLLOWING THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE WORK IS GETTING DONE.

>> Eric: DOES THE POLITICS, THE VARIOUS COUNTRIES INVOLVED, INTERNATIONALLY, DOES THAT GETS IN THE WAY OF DOING SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY CAN FIND ACCEPTABLE?

>> WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS THE PUBLIC'S PERCEPTION OF THE VACCINE AND IT WAS NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES THAT RAN INTO TROUBLE WITH PEOPLE BELIEVING THERE WAS SOMETHING POLITICAL ABOUT THE VACCINES OR REASON NOT TO TAKE THEM AND SO ACCINE ACCEPTANCE IN AND OF ITSELF IS CRITICAL.

YOU CAN HAVE THE BEST DARN VACCINE IS IN THE WORLDS BUT IF YOU CAN'T GET IT IN PEOPLE'S ARMS, WHAT GOOD IS IT?

SO THAT'S E.THAT IS REAL AROUND THE WORLD.

I THINK THE CHALLENGE WE HAVE NOW AND I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS IS THAT EVERYBODY WANTS TO MOVE ON FROM COVERED.

I GET THAT, OH, GODS, DO I GET THAT.

BUT AT THIS POINT THIS IS NOT THE LAST ONE.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS BUT THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED JUST NOW.

WE HAD A VIRUS THAT KILLED ABOUT A HALF PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE THAT OT NFECTED AND WAS HIGHLY INFECTIOUS.

SARS AND MERS, TWO OF THE CORONAVIRUS WHICH HAPPENED TEN TO 120 YEARS AGO, WERE KILLING BETWEEN 15 AND 35% OF THE PEOPLE BUT THEY WEREN'T VERY INFECTIOUS AND WE COULD CONTROL THEM.

THERE IS NOTHING TO KEEP IT IS NEXT CORONAVIRUS FROM BEING HIGHLY INFECTIOUS AND VERY EFFECTIVE AT KILLING.

SO WE HAVE GOT TO WORK NOW WITH THE LESSONS LEARNED ROM THIS PANDEMIC TO DEVELOP THESE BETTER VACCINES SO THAT WE CAN BE IN A POSITION OF REALLY NOT LETTING THAT HAPPEN, AND O I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A KEY, KEY PRIORITY.

I'M AFRAID PEOPLE WANT TO WALK AWAY RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE DONE.

>> Cathy: PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS AT ALL AND I BET PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS NEXT QUESTION, TOO.

I KNOW YOUR GROUP IS WORKING ON CWD, A LOT OF DEAR HUNTERS IN THE STATE, A LOT OF I DON'T THINKIC WASTING DISEASE IN WHITES TAIL DEER.

I KNOW YOU HAVE SOME MONEY, YOU'LL LOOK AT THE POSSIBILITIES OF THIS JUMPING TO UMANS?

>> RIGHT.

PEOPLE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT WE'VE NOW BEEN DEALING WITH THIS FOR MORE THAN 30 DAYS, WITH CERVIDS, WHITE-TAIL DEAL, THIS IS A TYPE OF INFECTIOUS MATERIAL THAT IS HIGHLY, HIGHLY DIFFERENT TO EVER KILL OR TO BASICALLY DISIN EFFECT.

AND MANY PEOPLE REMEMBER BACK IN THE DATES OF THE UNITED -- KINGDOM WITH THE MAD COW ISSUE, THAT WAS A PRION RELATED DISEASE, CAUSING ALZHEIMER'S-LIKE CONDITIONS AT VERY EARLY AGES AND RAPIDLY FATAL.

WE NOW HAVE IT IN OVER 30 STATES IN THE UNITED STATES AND WE HAVE IT IN 18 COUNTIES IN MINNESOTA AND THESE ANIMALS MAY NOT SHOW SYMPTOMS EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE THE PRION IN THEIR MUSCLE AND IF YOU INGEST IT, THERE IS A CHANCE YOU CAN GET INFECTED.

WE HAVE SEEN MILLIONS OF DEER HUNTERS IN THIS COUNTRY AND THEIR FAMILIES EATING PRION CONTAMINATED MEAT.

I WAS INVOLVED BACK IN THE 1980s AND '90.

>> Eric: REQUEST MAD COW IN EUROPE, I'M CONVINCED WE'LL SEE THE SAME THING HAPPEN HERE, IT WILL SPILL OVER TO HUMANS AND BECAUSE WE'RE FOLLOWING THE STRAINS OF THERE AND IT'S BECOMING MORE AND MORE HUMANIZED.

YEARS AGO WE COULD NOT PUT THIS INTO HUMAN OTHERWISED MITES, MYSELF THAT HAVE BEEN MADE GENETICALLY TO LOOK LIKE HUMANS, NOW WE CAN DO IT EASILY.

THAT IS A BAD SIGN SO I SNOW PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS BUT THIS IS GOING TO BE THE PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE INFECTIOUS DISEASE-WISE I THINK IN THE YEARS AHEAD.

GOING TO BE HUGE.

>> Cathy: UGH.

ALL RIGHT.

[Laughter] ALWAYS PPRECIATE YOU HAVING YOU.

>> JUST INVITES ME AGAIN.

>> Eric: