>> CATHY: THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY REGARDING COVID SINCE THE LAST TIME WE TALKED WITH MICHAEL OSTERHOLM.

THERE WAS A CONTROVERSIAL STUDY REVIEW BY THE COCHRANE GROUP ABOUT THE ROLE OF MASKS IN PREVENTING COVID.

PLUS THERE'S BEEN RENEWED INTEREST IN THE ORIGIN OF THE COVID VIRUS AFTER THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY CONCLUDED -- WITH LOW CONFIDENCE -- THAT THE VIRUS PROBABLY LEAKED FROM A LAB IN CHINA.

WHAT ARE LEADING SCIENTISTS SAYING ABOUT THESE TWO STORIES?

LET'S HEAR FROM ONE OF THEM.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM HEADS THE CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

BACK FOR HIS MONTHLY VISIT.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

DO YOU THINK WE'LL EVER REALLY KNOW HOW THIS VIRUS ORIGINATED?

>> NO, WE WON'T.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE PROBLEM WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS THAT PEOPLE FOR POLITICAL REASONS ARE ASSERTING THAT WE WILL OR CAN.

YOU KNOW, IT VERY WELL COULD HAVE BEEN A SPILL OVER FROM ANIMALS TO HUMANS.

AND THERE RE DATA TO SUPPORT THAT.

BUT IN ADDITION IT COULD HAVE BEEN A LEK FROM THE LAB THAT OCCURRED THERE.

THERE WAS NO EVIDENT THIS WAS AN INTENTIONAL KIND OF SITUATION OR THAT THE VIRUS WAS MAN-MADE.

IT'S LIKE THE TOP TEN CRIMINAL CASES THAT ARE COLD FOR AN ENTIRE DECADE OR MORE.

SO MY CONCERN IS WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO CONTINUE TO DEAL WITH THIS PANDEMIC OR WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO GET READY FOR THE NEXT ONE.

>> Eric: A VERY INTERESTING OP-ED IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES," A STUDY BY THIS ROCK RAN GROUP FROM ENGLAND THAT MASKING AND THE OTHER CAUTIONARY MEASURES DESIGNED TO REDUCE EXPOSURE TO COVID WERE BASICALLY MEANINGLESS AND I'VE BEEN ANXIOUS TO EAR WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THESE NEW ALLEGATIONS.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, OUR CENTER PUT OUT A COMMENTARY ON THIS VERY ISSUE LAYING OUT THE CHALLENGES THAT ALL OF THIS PRESENTS.

NUMBER ONE, THE COCHRANE GROUP WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO SOMEWHAT OF A KIND OF A GOLD STANDARD EVALUATION, HAS BEEN FLAWED FOR YEARS.

THIS IS NOT DPLOT THE NOT -- NOT THE FIRST STUDY THEY HAVE COME UNDER HEAVY CRITICISM.

IN THE SENSE OF WHAT POSITIONS HE TAKES AND WHAT DATA HE USES.

THE REVIEW THEY PRESENTED WAS SERIOUSLY FLAWED AND WE'VE LAID THAT OUT.

ON TOP OF THAT, THEN A "NEW YORK TIMES" OP-ED COLUMNIST WHO HAS NO EXPERIENCE OR BACKGROUND TOOK THE COCHRANE INFORMATION, EXTENDED IT FURTHER.

SO IT'S JUST CONTINUED TO KONL POUND IT.

THE RIGHT KIND OF SPRIERT PROTECTION IN, N-95 RESPIRATOR THAT FITS TIGHT ON YOUR FACE THAT BASICALLY HAS THE ELECTROSTATIC CHARGE IN THE MATERIAL ARE VERY EFFECTIVE.

IF YOU'RE WEARING A SURGICAL MASK, PROCEDURE ASK THAT HAS OPEN SPACES ALONG THE SIDE OF YOUR FACE, OR HAS AN INSUFFICIENT FILTERING MATERIAL IN THE FRONT, ARE GOING TO DO VERY, VERY LITTLE.

I TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, IF YOU GO STAND IN A ROOM, 30-FOOT BY 30-FOOT AND SOMEBODY'S SMOKING IN ONE CORNER, YOU HAVE A N-59 ON, OR YOU HAVE A SURGICAL MASK ON, YOU CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE IMMEDIATELY.

SO PLEASE DON'T BE CONFUSED BY THIS INFORMATION.

YOU CAN STILL PROTECT YOURSELF WITH AN N-95 RESPIRATOR.

>> Cathy: I WANT TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING YOU SAID WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE LAB THING.

THAT WE'RE NOT PAYING TO THE CURRENT PANDEMIC AND HOW TO PREPARE FOR THE NEXT ONE.

I'M WONDERING, WITH THE END OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY COMING UP ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL WHAT ARE YOU WORRIED MOST ABOUT?

>> THIS VIRUS HAS CONTINUED TO THROW 210 MILES AN HOUR CURVE BALLS AT US FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS.

TODAY WE'RE REPORTING OUT 530 DEATHS IN THIS COUNTRY.

THE NUMBER WE THOUGHT WAS GOING DOWN FOR SEVERAL WEEKS LAST MONTH DOWN INTO THE 3 LEFT HANDS AND NOW IT'S BACK UNAGAIN.

AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, 530 DEATHS A DAY, THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF DEATH IN THIS COUNTRY FROM CANCER EVERY DAY IS LUNG CANCER.

AND MOST PEOPLE THINK THAT THE PANDEMIC'S OVER.

AND IT'S NOT.

AND SO WE'VE REALLY GOT TO CONTINUE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT IF YOU GET VACCINATED, PARTICULARLY IF YOU'RE OVER AGE 65, YOU CAN GREATLY REDUCE YOUR RISK OF SERIOUS ILLNESS, HOSPITALIZATIONSHOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS.

YET ONLY 40% OF OUR POPULATION OVER 65 ARE VACCINATED.

WE NEED TO GET THAT MESSAGE OUT.

I FLEW ON A PLANE TODAY FROM LOS ANGELES TO MINNEAPOLIS.

I THINK I WAS ONE OF THREE PEOPLE ON THE PLANE THAT HAD ANY KIND OF RESPIRATORY PROTECTION ON.

IN THE AIRPORT, NOBODY DID.

I GET THAT.

TO DO IF YOU LOOK, MOST OF THE SERIOUS ILLNESS ND DEATHS IS NOT IN THE YOUNGER POPULATION.

BUT IF YOU'RE IN THAT HIGH RISK GROUP, OLDER AGE, YOU HAVE UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITIONS, THIS IS STILL POTENTIALLY A DEATH SENTENCE IF YOU GET COVID.

AND SO WE'VE GOT TO KEEP EMPHASIZING THAT AND MAKE SURE THEY'RE VACCINATED AND IF THEY DO GET SICK, PLEASE, PLEASE GET PAXLOVID, THE DRUG, IT IS A VERY EFFECTIVE AY TO REDUCE THE LIKELIHOOD OF GETTING SERIOUSLY ILL AND THOSE MESSAGES RIGHT NOW ARE JUST NOT OUT THERE.

>> Cathy: SO LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, AS YOU SAY, YOUNGER FOLKS ARE LIKE, YEAH, IT'S OKAY, IT'S OVER.

BUT THERE WAS THIS NEW JAMA STUDY WHICH I'M SURE YOU SAW THAT ONE IN FIVE INDIVIDUALS AGES 18 TO 64 HAVE ONGOING HEALTH ISSUES AFTER GETTING COVID AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LONG COVID, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THOSE WHO HAVE HAD COVID IN THE YEAR FOLLOWING THE INFECTION, DOUBLE THE RISK OF DEATH, HEART AND LUNG PROBLEMS, HOSPITAL EXPWAINGSES.

HOSPITALIZATIONS.

THAT MESSAGE IS CLEARLY NOT GETTING THROUGH?

>> NO, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

BUT ALSO LET ME CLARIFY THAT A BIT.

THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THE CHALLENGESES WE'VE HAD.

THIS HAS REALLY BEEN SEVERAL DIFFERENT KINDS OF PANDEMIC.

IN THE ARLY DAYS OF THE PANDEMIC, REMEMBER YOU LOST YOUR TASTE AND SMELL, AND LOVE COVID WITH A MUCH MORE LIKELY OUTCOME, AND THEN WE DIDN'T SEE AS MUCH LOSS OF TASTE AND SMELL, BUT WE SAW OTHER CONDITIONS AS THE NEW VIRUS VARIABLES EMERGED.

LONG COVID SURELY IS STILL OF A PROBLEM BUT WE'RE NOT SEEING AS MUCH OF IT DEVELOP IN THE MORE RECENT VARIANT, THE XPV, 1.5, OR ANY OF THOSE WITH OMICRON.

SO I DON'T WANT TO MINIMIZE, BUT YOURS SINCERELY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORIC IMPACT OF COVID, WE STILL SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD DELTA INFECTIONS, EVEN EARLY OMICRON INFECTIONS THAT GO ON AND DEVELOP LONG COVID.

AND THAT IS A LEGACY ISSUE THAT I THINK IS GOING TO PLAY OUT FOR MANY, MANY YEARS TO COME.

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE CHANCES OF A FLU-COVID COMBO SHOT ONCE A YEAR?

>> WELL, THE F.D.A.

JUNS ANNOUNCED TODAY THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT YEAR.

AND AS YOU KNOW, I HAVE BEEN NOT A SUPPORTER OF THAT ISSUE.

BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT REALLY, WE REALLY WANT TO HAVE JUST A SINGLE SHOT A YEAR.

AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT, IS IF YOU LOOK AT INFLUENZA, THE REASON WE GIVE FLU VACCINES IN THE LATE FALL IS BECAUSE THE FLU SEASON IS PRETTY WELL DEFINED.

WHEN YOU GET YOUR FLU SHOT, YOU PROBABLY LOSE ABOUT 15% OF THE PROTECTION YOU GET FROM THAT SHOT EVERY MONTH AFTER YOU'VE RECEIVED IT.

SO YOU YOU WANT TO GIVE IT RIGHT AROUND THE TIME THAT YOU'RE MOST LIKELY TO BE EXPERIENCING INFLUENZA.

WHEREAS WITH COVID, WE'RE NOT SEEING DMI SEASONALITY.

WE FILED THIS NEW VARIANT.

AND FOR 12 WEEKS, WE FOLLOW EED CLOSELY WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN NEW SOUTH WALES AUSTRALIA AND THE NORTHEASTERN PART OF THE UNITED STATES AND IT WAS IDENTICAL IN TERMS OF ITS ACTIVITY.

THAT'S NOT SEASONALITY.

AND SO I THINK IT'S TRY TO FORCE IT TO BE A SEASONAL VACCINE IS A MISTAKE.

AND SO I HINK WE HAVE TO HAVE A VERY HARD DISCUSSION ABOUT WILL WE MAKE IT AVAILABLE ANY TIME OF THE YEAR SINCE IT'S AT LEAST SIX MONTHS SINCE YOU GOT YOUR LAST DOSE.

>> Cathy: I KNOW YOU PROBABLY -- YOU'RE ASKED THIS ALL THE TIME, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU AGAIN.

YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT THE NEW VARIANT, RIGHT?

IS THERE A POINT WHERE THIS THING JUST BURNS OUT, OR IS THERE ANOTHER VARIANT THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT OUT THERE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, CATHY, WE'RE ALL BURNT OUT OURSELVES, SO WE CAN ONLY HOPE, BUT I CAN'T EXPLAIN FOR YOU, FOR THE LIFE ME AND ANYONE WHO IS HONEST AND HUMBLE AS WE SHOULD WITH BE THIS VIRUS, WILL TELL YOU, WHY ARE SUDDENLY WE SEEING THIS BIG INCREASE OF DEATHS AGAIN?

WE THOUGHT WE MIGHT BE ON THE HIGH PLAINS PLATEAU.

WE'VE BEEN AT 350 TO 5500 AND MOST OF IT ON THE UPPER END OF THAT FOR 12 MONTHS NOW, EVERY DAY, EVERY DAY.

THINK ABOUT THAT.

THAT'S OVER 3,700 DEATHS A WEEK IN THIS COUNTRY.

THINK ABOUT, THAT'S 160 TO 170,000 DEATHS A YEAR IN THIS COUNTRY YET EVERY DAY BECAUSE OF COVID.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S GOING TO DO NEXT.

AND I THINK WE'RE ALL WAITING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH OUR IMMUNITY.

IF IT WANES FROM OUR LAST DOSE OR LAST INFECTION, WE COULD BE SEEING MORE OF THIS AGAIN.

WE JUST HAVE TO BE HONEST AND SAY WE DON'T KNOW.

>> Cat