[ THEME MUSIC ] ON THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW," WE'LL UNPACK THE LATEST DRAMA WITH THE STATE'S CONGRESSIONAL MAP STARTING WITH THE LEGISLATURE STRIKING DOWN THE DISTRICTS CREATED BY AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION AND GOING ON TO PASS A VERSION OF THEIR OWN.

THEN WE'LL DISCUSS THE STATE'S APPROACH TO HIGHER EDUCATION FUNDING AND A CAMPAIGN TO EXPAND TUITION ASSISTANCE FOR STUDENTS.

I'M SHANTEL DESTRA, AND THIS IS "NEW YORK NOW."

[ THEME MUSIC ] WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW."

I'M SHANTEL DESTRA.

ONCE AGAIN, NEW YORK HAS A NEW CONGRESSIONAL MAP.

AT THE START OF THE WEEK, THE DEMOCRATIC-CONTROLLED STATE LEGISLATURE VOTED TO REJECT THE NEWLY DRAWN CONGRESSIONAL MAP CREATED BY THE INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION.

YOU MAY REMEMBER THE IRC WAS TASKED WITH CREATING NEW DISTRICTS BACK IN DECEMBER.

LAST WEEK, THE BODY UNVEILED A MAP THAT OFFERED LITTLE HELP TO DEMOCRATS AS THE PARTY VIES TO GAIN CONTROL OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

I THINK THERE ARE NUMEROUS PROBLEMS WITH THE MAP THAT WAS SENT TO US THAT RUN AFOUL OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL GUIDELINES THAT EXIST IN OUR STATE CONSTITUTION.

MOST NOTABLY, THERE ARE A HALF DOZEN COUNTY CUTS, PLACES WHERE COUNTIES WERE DIVIDED NEWLY IN THIS NEW MAP FROM THE EXISTING DISTRICTS.

AND POLITICAL PUNDITS AND STAKEHOLDERS WENT ON TO WAIT WITH BAITED BREATH TO SEE IF THE LEGISLATURE WOULD ADVANCE THE MAP.

ULTIMATELY, BOTH CHAMBERS VOTED TO REJECT IT AND REPUBLICANS BLASTED DEMOCRATS FOR WHAT THEY DESCRIBE AS NOT RESPECTING THE WORK OF THE COMMISSION OR NEW YORKERS.

YOU KNOW, I HEAR A LOT IN THIS HOUSE ABOUT PROTECTING DEMOCRACY AND THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, AND THE REALITY IS THE PEOPLE DID SPEAK.

THEY SPOKE IN A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT THEY WANTED TO ELIMINATE THIS BEHIND-CLOSED-DOORS WAY OF DRAWING REDISTRICTING MAPS, AND IT WAS CREATED THE IRC WITH THAT.

THAT WAS THE PEOPLE SPEAKING SAYING, LET'S CHANGE THIS PROCESS.

LET'S MAKE IT A MORE HONEST AND OPEN PROCESS.

AND CERTAINLY AFTER REJECTING THE MAP, DEMOCRATS WENT ON TO PRODUCE THEIR OWN WHICH IT TURNS OUT DIDN'T OFFER MAJOR CHANGES FROM WHAT WAS DRAWN BY THE COMMISSION AND SHOWED MARGINAL SHIFTS TO DISTRICTS.

TO NO SURPRISE, DEMOCRATS VOTED TO ADVANCE THEIR MAP AND WERE EVEN JOINED BY SOME REPUBLICANS IN BOTH CHAMBERS.

GOVERNOR KATHIE HOCHUL OFFICIALLY SIGNED THE NEW MAPS INTO LAW ON WEDNESDAY EVENING.

SO IT SEEMS THE REDISTRICTING SAGA FOR CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS HAS FINALLY BEEN SETTLED AND IF ALL GOES WELL, THESE MAPS WILL BE IN PLACE UNTIL 2032.

[ THEME MUSIC ] TO DISCUSS THE STATE'S NEWEST CONGRESSIONAL MAP AND HOW IT ALL UNFOLDED, WE'RE JOINED BY BILL MAHONEY OF POLITICO AND DAVID LOMBARDO OF THE CAPITAL PRESS ROOM.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

THANK YOU.

SURE.

THERE'S A LOT TO GET TO, BUT I WANTED TO START AT THE TOP OF THE WEEK.

WE KNOW THE DEMOCRATIC LEGISLATURE VOTED TO REJECT THE CONGRESSIONAL MAP THAT WAS PRODUCED BY THE IRC.

DID THIS COME AS A SURPRISE, OR WAS THE WRITING ON THE WALL HERE?

IT WAS A BIT OF A SURPRISE AT LEAST COMPARED TO A FEW WEEKS AGO.

THERE HAD BEEN A GENERAL SENSE IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT A LOT OF MEMBERS JUST WANTED TO END WHAT HAD BECOME A FOUR-YEAR REDISTRICTING PROCESS AND DIDN'T WANT TO DRAG THIS OUT TOO MUCH FURTHER, AND IT SEEMED LIKE THEY, YOU KNOW, IF THERE ARE REASONABLE LINES FROM THE COMMISSION, IT SEEMED LIKELY THEY WOULD ACCEPT IT, BUT IT SEEMS AT THE END A LOT OF THESE MEMBERS END UP SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, THE MEMBERS THAT DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ON IT, THEY WERE WILLING TO GO ALONG WITH THEIR COLLEAGUES WHO WANTED TO KEEP THIS AS AN ISSUE, SO THEY DID WIND UP OVER THE TWO WEEKS BETWEEN WHEN THEY INTRODUCED THE MAPS AND THE LEGISLATURE VOTED ON IT, THEY CAME OUT AGAIN AGAINST IT AND VOTED IT DOWN.

UH-HUH.

YEAH.

HINDSIGHT, IT SEEMS LIKE THE WRITING WAS PROBABLY ON THE WALL THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE PRESSURE FROM NATIONAL DEMOCRATS AND PROGRESSIVE GROUPS THAT MIGHT MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE STATE LEGISLATURE, AND THE DEMOCRATS SPECIFICALLY TO RUBBER STAMP WHATEVER THE BIPARTISAN COMMISSION CAME UP WITH.

I, LIKE BILL, KIND OF OUT THIS WAS GOING TO BE SORT OF A, LET'S JUST GET OUT OF HERE AND FORGET ABOUT REDISTRICTING UNTIL 2030.

CLEARLY, THAT WAS WRONG.

I THINK WHAT THEY ENDED UP DOING WASN'T NECESSARILY AS BIG OF A SWING AS PEOPLE THOUGHT THEY MIGHT DO ONCE THEY DID TRY TO OPEN THE PROCESS UP AGAIN.

RIGHT.

BILL, CAN YOU TALK TO SOME OF THOSE CHANGES IN THE DEMOCRATIC MAP VERSUS THE MAP THAT WAS SUBMITTED BY THE COMMISSION?

THERE WASN'T MUCH, TO BE HONEST.

LIKE THE GENERAL THEMES RELEASED BY THE COMMISSION WERE BASICALLY WORKING OFF OF THE MAPS DRAWN BY THE COURT A FEW-- TWO YEARS AGO AND NOT MAKING ANY DRASTIC CHANGES.

REALLY ALL THE COMMISSION HAD DONE WAS THEY MADE THE SYRACUSE AREA SEAT HELD BY REPUBLICAN BRANDON WILLIAMS, THEY HAD OUTLINED A COUPLE OF NEARBY PLACES LIKE AUBURN AND CORTLAND TO THE DISTRICT, WHICH MADE IT A BIT MORE DEMOCRATIC FRIENDLY, WHICH DEMOCRATS HAD CERTAINLY BEEN HOPING, BUT NOT AS DEMOCRATIC FRIENDLY AS THEY COULD HAVE IF THEY ADDED PLACES LIKE ITHACA.

THERE WERE MOSTLY MINOR ADJUSTMENTS TO THE OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE WHERE WE SAW A COUPLE DISTRICTS GET 1% MORE DEMOCRATIC AND 1% MORE REPUBLICAN, BUT NOTHING DRASTIC, AND THE LEGISLATIVE MAPS PRETTY MUCH WORKED OFF OF THOSE.

THEY MADE SOME CHANGES TO SOME OF THE PARTS THAT WERE-- SOME DISTRICTS IN THE HUDSON VALLEY.

THERE WERE SOME RELATIVELY SMALL TWEAKS IN PLACES LIKE NEW YORK CITY AND LONG ISLAND, BUT THEY WERE 95% THE SAME IN PRETTY MUCH EVERY CORNER OF THE STATE IF NOT MORE AND SOME OF THEM WERE IDENTICAL TO THE MAPS DRAWN BY THE COMMISSION.

IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT DEMOCRATS LEARNED FROM PAST MISTAKES WHEN THEIR MAP WAS SHUT DOWN FROM PREVIOUS YEARS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A PERSPECTIVE THAT IT HAD BEEN HEAVILY JERRYMANDERED?

THAT WAS PROBABLY A PART OF IT, WHERE THEY DID HAVE A MORE FAVORABLE COURT SYSTEM AND A PATH TO VICTORY IN THE COURT SYSTEM RATHER THAN THEY HAD A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

BUT THIS GOES BACK TO THE IDEA THAT A THE LOT OF LEGISLATURE DIDN'T WANT TO STRING IT OUT TOO MUCH LONGER AND THEY DIDN'T WANT IT TO TURN OUT TO A YEAR-LONG, TWO-YEAR LONG FIGHT OVER THIS, AND I THINK A BIG PART OF THE MOTIVATION WAS THE LEGISLATURE WANTED TO HOLD ONTO THEIR PREROGATIVE TO REDRAW THESE LINES IN THE FUTURE, SAYING THAT THIS IS THE LEGISLATURE'S POWER AND THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE DONE BY THE COURTS OR A BIPARTISAN COMMISSION.

THE LEGISLATURE HAS FINAL SAY, AND THE WAY THEY PLAYED THESE MAPS IS THAT SOME REPUBLICANS SUPPORTED IN THE END AND IT LEFT IT PRETTY CLEAR THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE LEGISLATURE WILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO HANDLE AS THEY SEE FIT IN THE FUTURE.

I WANTED TO UNPACK THE COURT OF APPEALS AND HOW THAT MIGHT HAVE IMPACTED THE WAY THINGS PLAYED OUT THIS YEAR.

WE KNOW THAT PREVIOUSLY THE COURT OF APPEAL, THEY SHUT DOWN THE DEMOCRATIC MAPS BUT THEN LAST YEAR-- AND THEY KICKED THE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE IRC AND A SPECIAL MAPS THERE TO PRODUCE THE MAPS AND LAST YEAR, THEY CAME BACK AND SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE NEEDS TO BE NEW CONGRESSIONAL MAPS.

SO HOW DID THE CHANGE AND THE MAKEUP OF THE COURT OF APPEALS POTENTIALLY IMPACT THE WAY THINGS PLAYED OUT THIS TIME?

IF YOU GO BACK TO THE COURT BATTLES FROM 2022, THERE WERE 13 JUDGES WHO WEIGHED IN AT VARIOUS LEVELS ABOUT LINES AND WHAT CONSTITUTES AN ILLEGAL JERRYMANDER.

THE ONE JUDGE WHO GAVE THE DEMOCRATS THE MOST LENIENCY IN THE OPINION IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY COULD DO WITH THE MAPS AND SAYING THEY COULD BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, COMING CLOSE TO SAYING THEY COULD DRAW THE MAPS AS THEY WANTED WAS ROWAN WILSON.

WHO WAS AN ASSOCIATE JUDGE AT THE COURT OF APPEALS AND YET A DISSENTING OPINION, AND WHEN THE COURT OF APPEALS RULED IN FAVOR OF REPUBLICANS BUT HE IS NOW, YOU KNOW, CHIEF JUDGE OF THE STATE.

HE HAS TREMENDOUS SWAY OVER THE COURT, AND THERE'S BEEN ANOTHER SEAT THAT SWAPPED THAT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE DEMOCRATIC FRIENDLY HAD THIS COME UP BEFORE AND THE DEMOCRATS ALSO PASSED THIS LAW THAT SAID THE CASES COULD ONLY START IN A HANDFUL OF COURTS ALL OF WHICH ARE IN DEMOCRATIC COUNTIES, SO IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A MUCH TOUGHER PATH FOR DEMOCRATS TO WIN A LEGAL BATTLE THIS TIME AROUND.

AND WHAT'S INTERESTING TO ME IS THE DEBATE ON THE FLOOR IN THE MAPS THAT WERE PRODUCED BY THE IRC.

A LOT OF THE REPUBLICANS WERE SAYING THAT DEMOCRATS WERE ACTING UNCONSTITUTIONALLY BUT THEN IN THE MAP THAT THE DEMOCRATS PRODUCE, A LOT OF THE REPUBLICANS VOTED WITH DEMOCRATS.

SO WAS THIS IDEA THAT DEMOCRATS WERE ACTING UNCONSTITUTIONAL JUST POLITICAL FODDER, OR IS IT OKAY BECAUSE THE MAPS DIDN'T CHANGE THAT MUCH?

WELL, IRONICALLY, THE REASON THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS THE POWER TO APPROVE THE MAPS AS THEY WANT IS BECAUSE REPUBLICANS FOUGHT IN 2012 WHEN THIS WHOLE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT CREATED THE STRUCTURE FOR REDISTRICTING IS NOW BEING DEBATED.

ANDREW CUOMO, THEORETICALLY, HAS BEEN PUSHING FOR A FULLY INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING PROCESS WHERE A COMMISSION COULD DRAW THEIR OWN LINES AND DO WHATEVER THEY WANT, BUT THE REPUBLICANS WHO HELD CONTROL OF THE STATE SENATE WERE NERVOUS ABOUT WHAT THEY COULD MEAN IN A BLUE STATE AND THEY FOUGHT AGAINST GIVING THIS COMMISSION TOO MUCH POWER AND BASICALLY LED TO THIS AMENDMENT THAT WE HAVE NOW THAT GOVERNS HOW THIS PROCESS WORKS THAT SAYS THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD HAVE THE POWER TO VOTE ON THE FINAL MAPS IN THE END AND CAN CHANGE THEM IF THEY WANT.

AND DAVE, DID WE GET ANY INSIGHT ON WHEN THE LEGISLATURE WAS KIND OF IDEATING OVER THESE MAPS?

SO BOTH THE SENATE AND ASSEMBLY DEMOCRATIC LEADERS HAVE BEEN VERY COY ABOUT THE PROCESS OF WRITING THESE MAPS.

THE ONLY THING THAT THEY WILL SAY IN CONCRETE TERMS IS THAT THEY WERE FINALIZED IN THE WAKE OF THE LEGISLATURE-- RIGHT.

REJECTING THE LINES FROM THE COMMISSION, BUT IT'S CLEAR THAT THESE LINES WERE NOT DRAWN UP IN A COUPLE HOURS.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE LEGISLATURE AND THE DEMOCRATIC LEADERS HAD BEEN THINKING ABOUT FOR AT LEAST DAYS SINCE THE REDISTRICTING LINES CAME OUT MORE THAN A WEEK EARLIER FROM THE COMMISSION.

THE LEGISLATURE HAS INSTITUTIONAL STAFF IN THIS COMMITTEE, THE SO-CALLED LAP FOUR TASK FORCE THAT HAS THE CAPACITY TO WORK ON THIS AND CLEARLY WAS WORKING ON THIS.

TALKING WITH LAWMAKERS, THEY CLEARLY HAD IDEAS ABOUT MAPS THAT WERE COMING TOGETHER.

SO THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS IN THE WORKS AND THEN FINALIZED MONDAY EARLIER THIS WEEK.

SO FROM YOUR PURVIEW, WHY ARE THE DEMOCRATS AND THE LEGISLATURE BEING COY ON THIS ISSUE?

SO I THINK THEY COULD BE A LITTLE GUN SHY OR WERE AT LEAST A LITTLE GUN SHY BASED ON THE IDEA THAT THERE MIGHT BE A LEGAL CHALLENGE AND THEY DIDN'T WANT TO SAY SOMETHING THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE USED AGAINST THEM IN A COURT CASE.

SINCE THE LINES HAVE BEEN APPROVE AND AS YOU SAID WITH SOME REPUBLICAN SPORT, WE HEARD FROM REPUBLICAN LEADERS ACROSS THE STATE THAT THERE WON'T BE A LEGAL CHALLENGE.

IT DOESN'T SAY THAT THERE WON'T BE SOME FROM MAYBE A RANDOM REPUBLICAN OR CONSERVATIVE OR JUST CONCERNED CITIZEN, BUT WITHOUT A LEGAL CHALLENGE, IT KIND OF NEGATES THAT NECESSARY COYNESS THAT I WAS MENTIONING EARLIER.

THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THESE STATEMENTS USED AGAINST THEM IN COURT, AND I ALSO THINK, THOUGH, THERE'S THE POSSIBILITY THAT MAYBE THE ASSEMBLY AND SENATE WEREN'T NECESSARILY ON THE SAME PAGE AS THEY WERE APPROACHING REDISTRICTING.

THE SENATE DEMOCRATS HAVE TRADITIONALLY SINCE THEY TOOK MAJORITY BEEN A LITTLE MORE ACTIVISTS SIX 2019 COMPARED TO ASSEMBLY DEMOCRATS, SO MAYBE THEY WEREN'T NOT IN LOCKSTEP WITH ASSEMBLY COLLEAGUES AND MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THEY DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

BECAUSE THEY WANT TO APPEAR THAT THEY'RE MARCHING TO THE SAME DRUM BEAT RIGHT NOW.

YEAH.

I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING THAT A LOT OF HIGH-RANKING REPUBLICANS CAME OUT THAT SAID WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY LOOKING TO SUE.

IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR AN INDEPENDENT CHALLENGE IN THE COURTS?

WELL, THE GREAT THING ABOUT NEW YORK IS THAT YOU CAN SUE ANYBODY FOR ANYTHING.

SO ANYBODY CAN BRING A CASE THAT YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY HAD STANDING TO ACTUALLY BRING A CASE, WHETHER THEY WERE AN AGGRIEVED PARTY IN SOME WAY AND LIKE BILL MENTIONED EARLIER, YOU HAVE TO BRING ONE OF THOSE CASES THROUGH FOR DIFFERENT COURTS THAT ARE ALL A LITTLE MORE FRIENDLY TO DEMOCRAT THAN, SAY, STATE SUPREME COURT JUDGE OUT IN STEUBEN COUNTY, SO IT WOULD BE MORE OF AN UPHILL BATTLE IF SOMEONE DID DECIDE TO BRING A LEGISLATIVE-- SORRY, A LEGAL CASE IN THIS MATTER.

IF YOU GO BACK TO THE 2022 CASES THERE WERE TWO REASONS THAT THE MAPS WERE STRUCK DOWN.

ONE IS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE PROCESS FOR DRAWING THE MAPS THEMSELVES WHICH THEY SEEM TO HAVE CORRECTED THIS TIME AROUND.

TWO, THERE WAS ESPECIALLY AT THE LOWER COURTS THE QUESTION IF IT WAS A QUESTION OF A DEMOCRATIC JERRYMANDER AND WE DON'T HAVE PERFECT GUIDANCE FROM THE COURTS HOW WE DETERMINE IF SOMETHING IS A JERRYMANDER IN NEW YORK.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME UP REPEATEDLY WAS THAT THERE WERE NO REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED IN GAVE HE OF THE LINES AND THAT, BY ITSELF, COULD BE SEEN AS EVIDENCE OF A JERRYMANDER.

THIS TIME, THAT'S GONE.

WE HAD, I BELIEVE, 15 TOTAL, 16 TOTAL REPUBLICANS IN THE LEGISLATURE VOTE FOR THE LINES SO IT WASN'T UNANIMOUS SUPPORT, BUT THERE WAS SOME BIPARTISAN SUPPORT THERE.

WE KNOW BOTH PARTIES ARE VYING TO GAIN CONTROL OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

SO HOW MIGHT THIS WHOLE REDISTRICTING SAGA AND CONGRESSIONAL MAPS IMPACT THE WAY THAT VOTERS ARE APPROACHING THE POLLS IN NOVEMBER?

SO I THINK THESE MAPS NEED TO BE CONSIDERED AS FAVORABLE TO DEMOCRATS.

THESE SEATS, WHILE MAY BE REPRESENTED BY REPUBLICANS AND SAY, THE HUDSON VALLEY AND LONG ISLAND, ARE SEATS THAT WOULD HAVE VOTED OVERWHELMINGLY FOR INCUMBENT PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN IN 2020.

SO I THINK DEMOCRATS NEED TO FEEL PRETTY GOOD ABOUT THE STARTING POSITION EVEN IF THEY ARE RUNNING AGAINST THE REPUBLICAN INCUMBENTS, AND I THINK NOW WE JUST NEED TO WATCH AND SEE WHAT SOME OF THESE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES CAN DO, WHAT THE NATIONAL MOOD IS LIKE BECAUSE THERE ARE WINNABLE SEATS THAT DEMOCRATS COULD FLIP MOVING FORWARD IN THE FALL.

NEW YORK HAS BEEN THE BIG BATTLEGROUND THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY FOR THIS ENTIRE ELECTION CYCLE.

IN PART, BECAUSE DEMOCRATS UNDERPERFORMED SO MUCH IN 2022 COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

THERE WERE SEATS THEY COULD HAVE WON THAT THEY DIDN'T THAT NOW SEEM LIKE THEY MIGHT HAVE A BETTER CHANCE IN A PRESIDENTIAL YEAR AND PARTICULARLY IF YOU GO TO THE SYRACUSE AREA, BRANDON WELL YAMS' SEAT, IT MAKES MORE LIKELY THAT THEY WILL WIN A SEAT.

NOT GUARANTEED, OF COURSE.

WE HAVE SEEN THEM LOSE PLENTY OF ELECTIONS IN THE DECADE DURING ELECTION YEARS THAT THEY SAY THEY'RE GOING TO WIN.

IT DOES GIVE THEM AN EASIER PATH IN A COUPLE OF THESE BATTLEGROUNDS.

IS THE REDISTRICTING SAGA FINALLY OVER?

WE KNOW THAT IF THESE MAPS ARE, YOU KNOW, IF ALL GOES WELL, THEY WILL BE IN PLACE UNTIL 2032.

I KNOW YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL.

IS IT SAFE TO SAY THAT EVERYTHING IS FINE AND WE WON'T HAVE TO REVISIT THIS UNTIL 2032?

I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A POST MAR TESTIMONY AND EVALUATION SPECIFICALLY BY GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS ARE GOING TO PUSH FOR MORE INDEPENDENT PROCESS MOVING FORWARD AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE LEGISLATURE WILL DECIDE TO REOPEN THIS ISSUE.

I WILL SAY IF THEY EVER DECIDE TO TAKE A STAB AT CHANGING THE PROCESS IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY, IT'S GOING TO INCLUDE THAT FINAL CHECK THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS IN THE CURRENT PROCESS.

DEMOCRATS AREN'T GOING TO GIVE AWAY THAT AUTHORITY THAT THEY HAVE TO BE THE FINAL SAY ON THE LINES.

SO I WOULDN'T EXPECT THIS PROCESS TO BE DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT IN 2030, 2032.

NOTABLY, THOUGH, THE REDISSTRICTING COMMISSION SAY IT'S NOT GOING AWAY.

WE WILL SEE IF THEY HAVE ANY FUNDING IN THE BUDGET THAT GETS APPROVED IN A MONTH, BUT COMMISSIONERS HAVE SAID THEY PLAN TO STICK AROUND AFTER THIS ALL WRAPS UP AND HOLD SOME HEARINGS THIS SPRING TO FIGURE OUT HOW THE PROCESS WORKS AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR AMENDING THE PROCESS GOING FORWARD.

SO IT PROBABLY IS SOMETHING PEOPLE WILL TALK ABOUT TO A DEGREE THE REMAINDER THIS YEAR.

BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, WE'LL BE APPOINTING THE 2032 COMMISSION IN JUST ABOUT 5 YEARS, 10 MONTHS AND 29 DAYS.

WELL, WE'LL HAVE TO KEEP WATCH.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT HERE FOR NOW.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

THANK YOU.

AND WE WERE SPEAKING WITH DAVID LOMBARDO OF THE CAPITAL PRESS ROOM AND BILL MAHONEY OF POLITICO.

AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO BRING YOU THE LATEST ON REDISTRICTING AND CONGRESSIONAL RACES RIGHT HERE ON THE SHOW AND ONLINE ON OUR WEBSITE.

THAT'S AT NYNOW.ORG.

NOW TURNING TO ANOTHER TOPIC, TOTAL ENROLLMENT AT THE STATE'S PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES HAS INCREASED FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A DECADE.

BUT AS BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS ARE UNDERWAY, THERE ARE MAJOR FUNDING CONCERNS.

LEGISLATORS ARE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO INCREASE FUNDING TO SUNY AND CUNY SCHOOLS AND EXPAND THE STATE'S TUITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.

PRODUCER CATHERINE RAFFERTY SPOKE WITH EDUCATION STAKEHOLDERS ABOUT THE ISSUE.

HERE'S THAT STORY.

[ THEME MUSIC ] THE TUITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, OR TAP, IS ADMINISTERED BY THE STATE'S HIGHER EDUCATION SERVICES CORPORATION, HESC.

HESC PROCESSES MORE THAN HALF A MILLION GRANT SCHOLARSHIPS AND LOAN FORGIVENESS APPLICATIONS EACH YEAR, AWARDING NEARLY $1 BILLION IN FINANCIAL AID TO MORE THAN 330,000 STUDENTS.

IN 2022, TAP SUPPORTED NEARLY 40% OF FULL-TIME SUNY UNDERGRADUATES.

OF THOSE STUDENTS THAT RECEIVED TAP SUPPORT, 19% RECEIVED THE MAXIMUM TAP AWARD.

TAP GRANTS BENEFITS STUDENTS AND CAN OPEN THE DOOR TO HIGHER EDUCATION FOR STUDENTS WHO OTHERWISE COULDN'T AFFORD TUITION, BUT THE COST OF HIGHER ED, LIKE A LOT OF THINGS, ARE GOING UP.

UNTIL 2011, NEW YORK WOULD INCREASE THE MAXIMUM TAP AWARD TO MATCH THE STATE'S SUNY AND CUNY TUITION RATES.

CURRENTLY, THE MAXIMUM TAP AWARD IS JUST OVER $5,000 WHILE SUNY TUITION CAN COST UP TO 7,000.

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A DECADE, SUNY'S TOTAL ENROLLMENT INCREASED FROM FALL 2022 TO FALL 2023, REFLECTING A 1.1% GAIN.

IN JANUARY, SUNY RELEASED A REPORT ON LONG-TERM ENROLLMENT AND FINANCIAL STABILITY.

SUNY CHANCELLOR JOHN KING SAYS THAT MORE REVENUE WILL BE NEEDED TO SUSTAIN THE SYSTEM.

SALARIES WILL GO UP EACH YEAR.

THE COST OF GOODS AND SERVICES WILL GO UP EACH YEAR, AND SO, YOU KNOW, IF NOTHING CHANGES, TEN YEARS OUT, WE'D HAVE A BILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT.

THERE ARE REALLY TWO SOLUTIONS TO THAT.

INCREASING STATE SUPPORT OR TUITION INCREASES.

AND ON EITHER SIDE, THEY WOULD BE MODEST IN INCREASES, EITHER IN STATE SUPPORT OR IN TUITION, BUT WE'VE GOT TO HAVE ADDITIONAL REVENUE TO CLOSE THAT BILLION DOLLAR GAP IN ORDER TO PROVIDE GREAT SERVICES FOR OUR STUDENTS.

WE'VE GOT A FULL RANGE OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR STUDENTS, BUT EACH CAMPUS OVER TIME MAY NOT BE ABLE TO OFFER EVERY PROGRAM, BUT WE WANT ALL PROGRAMS TO BE AVAILABLE TO STUDENTS ACROSS ALL OF OUR CAMPUSES AND OF COURSE, CAMPUSES ALSO NEED TO CONTINUALLY ADJUST.

IN JANUARY, THE STATE'S LEGISLATURE'S HIGHER EDUCATION COMMITTEE LAUNCHED A TURN ON THE TAP CAMPAIGN INTRODUCING A SERIES OF BILLS TO FUND AND EXPAND THE PROGRAM.

THESE BILLS INCLUDE GOALS TO RAISE THE MINIMUM TAP AWARD TO $1,000, RAISE THE INCOME CAP FOR ELIGIBILITY AND INCREASE OVERALL FUNDING FOR TAP WHILE EXPANDING THE DEFINITION OF ELIGIBLE STUDENTS.

ASSEMBLY MEMBER PATRICIA FAHY AND SENATOR TOBY ANN STAVISKY SERVE AS CHAIRS FOR THEIR CHAMBERS HIGHER EDUCATION COMMITTEE.

THEY SAY TAP NO LONGER FULFILLS ITS MISSION OF HELPING LOWER AND MIDDLE CLASS STUDENTS WITH COLLEGE EXPENSES.

WE WANT TO MAKE COLLEGE AFFORDABLE AND WE'VE GOT TO MAKE IT AFFORDABLE FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS AS WELL AS THOSE WITH LOW INCOMES AND BY THE WAY, TAP, THE TUITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, IT WAS LAUNCHED 50 YEARS AGO.

IT HAS NOT-- THE INCOME ELIGIBILITY FOR IT HAS NOT BEEN RAISED IN 25 YEARS.

IF WE CAN INCREASE TAP, IF WE CAN TELL FAMILIES WE HAVE YOUR BACK, WE'RE GOING TO AT LEAST COVER TUITION, I WOULD LOVE TO COVER MORE OF THE FEES, BUT WE'VE GOT TO SHOW THEM THAT COLLEGE IS AFFORDABLE.

WE'VE GOT TO KEEP IT AFFORDABLE AND WORTHWHILE TO GET THOSE DEGREES.

SENATOR TOBY ANN STAVISKY SAYS THE CHAMBER NEEDS TO MAKE THESE CHANGES TO HELP FINANCIAL DISTRESSED SUNY AND CUNY CAMPUSES.

LAST YEAR, SOME SUNY CAMPUSES ANNOUNCED CUTBACKS DUE TO DEFICITS THEY WERE FACING.

A LONG-STANDING TREND IN DECLINING ENROLLMENT AND DECLINING BIRTH RATE.

LAST YEAR, THERE WERE 19 DISTRESSED COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES AT SUNY.

I UNDERSTAND THIS YEAR, THE NUMBER'S DOWN TO 18.

CUNY HAS ADDITIONAL PROBLEMS, THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK, THERE ARE NINE COLLEGES WHERE THEY ARE IN FINANCIAL DISTRESS AND WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY TAKE MEASURES AND THAT WE HELP THEM, THAT WE WORK TOGETHER, THAT WE MAKE TAP AND THE OTHER AIDS MORE RELEVANT TO REDUCING THEIR PROBLEMS.

THE PACKAGE OF BILLS HAS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT.

REPUBLICANS ON THE HIGHER EDUCATION COMMITTEE ARE ON BOARD WITH THE IDEA OF UPDATING TAP.

ASSEMBLY MEMBER ED RA, A REPUBLICAN ON THE HIGHER EDUCATION COMMITTEE SAYS LEGISLATORS ARE PUSHING FOR OTHER MEASURES TO HELP HIGHER EDUCATION IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET.

ON THE PRIVATE SIDE CAPITAL, THERE ARE CUTS WITH REGARD TO AID TO OUR PRIVATE COLLEGES.

THERE IS ON THE SUNY SIDE, COMMUNITY COLLEGES, I THINK THEY NEED SUPPORT THERE.

PARTICULARLY STRUGGLING WITH DECLINING ENROLLMENT, BUT THEY ALSO JUST HAVE NEVER GOTTEN COMMISERATE FUNDING TO WHAT THE FOUR-YEAR COLLEGES GET.

LAST YEAR, THE STATE SENATE AND ASSEMBLY REJECTED GOVERNOR KATHIE HOCHUL'S CONTROVERSIAL TUITION HIKE PROPOSAL FOR SUNY AND CUNY CAMPUSES.

THIS YEAR, SEVERAL LAWMAKERS ARE HOPING INCREASES IN TAP AND OPERATING AID WILL CONTINUE TO BOOST ENROLLMENT AND SUSTAIN THE SUNY SYSTEM IN THE LONG RUN.

THE GOVERNOR'S FISCAL YEAR '25 EXECUTIVE BUDGET BUILDS ON LAST YEAR'S HISTORIC 163 MILLION INCREASE AND OPERATING AID, PROVIDING AN ADDITIONAL 54 MILLION INCREASE FOR STATE-OPERATED CAMPUSES.

ALSO LAST YEAR, GOVERNOR KATHIE HOCHUL AND THE LEGISLATURE CREATED THE PART-TIME TAP PROGRAM, FURTHER EXPANDING TAP TO INCLUDE MICRO CREDENTIALS AND NON-DEGREE WORKFORCE PROGRAMS.

SUNY CHANCELLOR JOHN KING SAYS THE STATE SHOULD UPDATE TAP TO KEEP PACE WITH INFLATION.

WE REALLY HAVE TO ADJUST THOSE THRESHOLDS TO MATCH CURRENT TIMES.

WE ALSO NEED TO CONTINUE TO GROW THE TAP FOR WORKFORCE PROGRAMS.

THAT'S A REAL AREA STRENGTH FOR SUNY AND AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO HELP PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, ACHIEVE REAL SOCIAL MOBILITY.

ADVOCATES RETURN ON THE TAP HOPE THAT BY INCREASING AID FOR STUDENTS ENROLLMENT WILL GROW WHICH WILL LEAD TO MORE FINANCIAL STABILITY FOR HIGHER EDUCATION IN NEW YORK.

THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE AID, TUITION AND ENROLLMENT IS A BALANCING ACT THAT LAWMAKERS HOPE TO GET RIGHT.

FOR ANDREW PERRY, A SENIOR ANALYST AT THE NON-PARTISAN FISCAL POLICY INSTITUTE, LONG-TERM FINANCIAL STABILITY FOR HIGHER ED WILL ALSO REQUIRE POLICYMAKERS TO PROVIDE AID TO COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES THEMSELVES AND NOT JUST STUDENTS.

AID FOR THE STATE-- AID FOR SUNY DIRECT STATE SUPPORT FOR SUNY CAMPUSES WAS CUT DURING THE GREAT RECESSION QUITE A BIT, AND NEVER FULLY RESTORED.

OUR GROUP, THE FISCAL POLICY INSTITUTE, DID AN ANALYSIS OF THE TUITIONS PROPOSED LAST YEAR, AND WE FOUND THEY WERE ACTUALLY-- THE PROPOSED COMMISSION HIKES WERE QUITE STEEP.

WE THINK THIS IS REALLY THE WRONG WAY TO CLOSE THESE SUNY OPERATING GAPS.

REALLY WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS THE STATE RESTORE SOME OF THE DIRECT FUNDING FOR CAMPUSES THAT HAVE IT HISTORICALLY PROVIDED.

THE THE STATE FACES A $4.3 BILLION BUDGET GAP AND MANY STAKEHOLDERS ARE LOOKING TO THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE TO CLOSE THE GAP.

SUNY CHANCELLOR JOHN KING IS HOPING THE LEGISLATURE CAN SECURE MORE FUNDING FOR SUNY IN THE COMING YEARS.

WE'RE EXTRAORDINARILY GRATEFUL TO GOVERNOR HOCHUL AND OUR LEGISLATIVE CHAMPIONS FOR THE INVESTMENT LAST YEAR IN SUNY, $163 MILLION IN OPERATING AID, THE LARGEST OPERATING AID INCREASE FOR SUNY IN 20 PLUS YEARS AND LAST YEAR, THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATURE COMMITTED TO $54 MILLION THIS YEAR IN ADDITIONAL SUPPORT AS WELL AS NEXT YEAR IN ADDITIONAL SUPPORT.

SO THAT WAS FREIGHT NEWS FOR SUNY, REALLY IMPORTANT STEP FORWARD FOR INVESTMENT IN PUBLIC HIGHER EDUCATION.

BUT I WILL SAY ONE OF OUR CHALLENGES IN THIS MOMENT IS WE JUST COMPLETED A NEW CONTRACT WITH EUP, OUR MAJOR FACULTY UNION, WELL-DESERVED RAISES THAT WE WANT TO PROVIDE, A FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE CONTRACT, BUT IT WILL COST US ABOUT $86 MILLION DOLLARS.

AND SO WE ARE HOPEFUL THAT AS THE BUDGET PROCESS MOVES FORWARD, THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATURE WILL BE ABLE TO HELP US TO COVER THOSE COSTS AS WELL.

PERRY SAYS THIS IS ATTAINABLE GIVEN THE CURRENTLY PROJECTED GAPS IN THE BUDGET FOR THE NEXT YEAR.

THE PROJECTED GAPS AFTER NEXT YEAR ARE ACTUALLY VERY SMALL BY HISTORIC STANDARD, AND WE THINK THE STATE IS ON PRETTY SOLID GROUND FISCALLY FOR THE COMING YEARS.

IT'S ALSO WORTH NOTING THAT THE CURRENT DEFICIT FACED BY SUNY CAMPUSES THAT HAVE DEFICITS IS $139 MILLION AND THAT'S AGAINST $125 BILLION STATE FUNDS BUDGET.

WE REALLY THINK THAT RESTORING SOME FINANCIAL STABILITY TO SUNY IS ACTUALLY A VERY MANAGEABLE ASK, AND IT SORT OF MERITS BEING A TOP PRIORITY IN THE STATE.

FIFTEEN TAP-RELATED BILLS ARE CURRENTLY SITTING IN EITHER THE SENATE OR ASSEMBLY'S HIGHER EDUCATION COMMITTEES.

WE'LL KEEP YOU UPDATED ON THE PROGRESS OF THESE BILLS AND HIGHER EDUCATION FUNDING RIGHT HERE ON THE SHOW.

YOU CAN ALSO VISIT OUR WEBSITE.

AGAIN, THAT'S NYNOW.ORG.

NOW THAT DOES IT FOR THIS EPISODE OF "NEW YORK NOW."

THANK YOU FOR TUNING IN AND SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

[ THEME MUSIC ] ANNOUNCER: FUNDING FOR "NEW YORK NOW" IS PROVIDED BY WNET.