- Just ahead on "Black Issues Forum," we celebrate Dr. Martin Luther King, with a visit to one of North Carolina's oldest Black-owned newspapers still in production.

Then later, a one-on-one conversation about the far-reaching impact Black media has on society.

Stay with us.

[light electronic music] - [Announcer] "Black Issues Forum" is a production of PBS North Carolina, with support from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[light electronic music] ♪ - Welcome to "Black Issues Forum."

I'm Kenia Thompson.

Black media has played a significant and transformative role in shaping history by providing a platform for expression, promoting cultural identity, and challenging systemic oppression.

However, newspapers in particular seem to be fading away with that history.

North Carolina is home to one family's legacy that they're not ready to give up just yet.

Here's the story of Vickie and Afrique Kilimanjaro and "The Carolina Peacemaker" in Greensboro, North Carolina.

- It's nice that people see your work and say, "Oh, you know what?

They've been at it for a long time."

[light pensive music] It was hard to get started.

My husband, John Marshall Kilimanjaro, he would go to the Muslims' meeting over Gorrell Street here in Greensboro.

The minister there, one night said, "There are all these Black people here in Greensboro, and nobody's giving other Black people jobs."

So that kinda triggered him.

So he said, "I'm gonna start me a newspaper."

When we went to the March on Washington, we were a little hesitant about going.

When we got to Washington, the sun was coming up.

I've never seen so many people before in all my life.

There were people everywhere, all in the trees, on the branches of the trees, you know, so they could see.

But we had a good spot.

We could see very well.

When Martin Luther King stood up and got ready to talk, you could hear a pin fall.

Everybody got quiet.

[people applauding] - Five score years ago, a great American in whose symbolic shadow we stand today signed the Emancipation Proclamation.

But 100 years later, the Negro still is not free.

- Martin Luther King came to Greensboro in 1963, and my husband and I, and Martin Luther King's sister-in-Law, who was teaching at A&T at the time.

And he sat on the fireplace.

All the women were on this long couch.

And he got up and he looked at me, and he said, "My god, you look just like my wife."

And I was wearing my bang back then, [laughs] and my hair was long, of course, and curly.

[laughs] [soft orchestral music] After we left the Marsh on Washington, we started the paper in 1967.

When we started out, we didn't, we weren't getting a penny.

We went years without getting a penny.

- Running a publication is not, or it's not a one-person outfit.

It's kinda like a train.

If it doesn't, if things don't happen in succession or in a particular order, then it throws everything else off kilter.

- Afrique was just, she was working for the CDC Center, and my husband called her and told her, "We need some help."

And she came and she said, "Papa, I'm going to give you two years, and that's gonna be it."

And she's been here, I don't know how long.

So after he passed away, I said, "Okay, you're gonna be the editor of 'The Peacemaker,' and we're gonna put your name on everything with mine."

And Alma Adams spoke at my husband's service, and Alma Adams said, "And we want Afrique to keep this paper going, 'cause it's done a lot for this community, for this state, and for the country."

- You want people to be able to see someone who looks like them in this field, 'cause a lot of times, you know, you can get lost.

You can get lost in this.

- We want the Black community to know exactly what's going on.

- We're here also to inspire a younger generation to enter the media spheres.

- "Americans must live together as brothers, unless we all die together as fools."

[inspirational orchestral music] - We are very appreciative and very honored that to be presented with an award like this.

- I had such a good time sitting down with Vickie and Afrique.

They have such a love for the work that they do and the community that they belong in.

And the work has not gone unnoticed.

The paper will be saluted by the town of Cary at the 2024 Martin Luther King Jr. Dreamfest celebration for their impact on community, just in time for MLK Day.

And we'd like to spend the rest of our time together to talk about the impact not only they have had, but MLK has had on how Black media parallels the historical efforts seen over decades in Black history.

To share some insight on this and more, we welcome to the show our regular, La'Meshia Whittington, executive director at The Green Majority, and professor at North Carolina State University.

Welcome to the show, La'Meshia.

- Thank you, Kenia, thank you for having me.

- Of course, it was such a beautiful piece.

You know, in that piece, we showcase MLK's very famous "I Have a Dream" speech, but what many people don't know is that Dr. King actually previewed this speech in North Carolina, in Rocky Mount specifically.

What made it a good area or a good place for him to come here and share that before he shared it on a national platform?

- Right, Kenia, you're so right.

So many folks are not aware that Dr. King not only visited Rocky Mount, but also been at college, A&T, and made some, even at PNC, Dorton Arena in Raleigh, you know, around the same movement time, and watching the interview, and, you know, I just deeply appreciate the honoring of the Kilimanjaros, and the elevation of "The Carolina Peacemaker," because when we evalue, why did Dr. King choose Rocky Mount, it is imperative, it is paramount that we really observe the movement historically as it was in our community, to identify what the movement is now, that is present in our community today.

We have to connect the dots, and also understand that "The Carolina Peacemaker" and other press, Black media, that was around during that Rocky Mount speech, they're still around today.

And so that's one of the, when we talk about the movement, Dr. King chose Rocky Mount, and I can't say I was in those conversations, but hearing from the elders, right, hearing from history and then, you know, sitting at the feet, and listening and saying, "Okay, why, why North Carolina?"

North Carolina, just, you know, similar to many of the U.S. Southern states, was not on the site of the grand oppression historically, for, you know, the people that were, we are the descendants of the folks that were in slavery and U.S. chattel.

When we talk about that dispensation time, it was not only a site of oppression, but of liberation, of fighting back, of saying, "Okay, these are the rights that we envisioned, the dream."

That's the whole point of even the speech that Dr. King delivered on Rocky Mount.

Many folks don't know, that before, before his paramount, his historical speech, "I Have a Dream" in Washington, he delivered a segment of that in Rocky Mount.

It was a part of a campaign strategy that Black media was very instrumental in elevating in every corner of the oppressed states, not just in the U.S. South, but also in the North.

And it was the ringing of "I Have a Dream," and it didn't just start in Washington, and many folks will see a movement, and they'll see the climax of that movement, and they say, "Oh, it was just that moment in time."

It was not just a moment in time.

It was a moment of labor.

It was the proof that Dr. King and many Black press, when we talk about media, when we talk about organizers and pastors and faith leaders and church mothers and teachers and folks, they were moving in tandem, in unification.

And the "I Have a Dream" in telling the community, that was happening all across speeches that Dr. King was delivering in the United States.

And Rocky Mount was one of those communities that was a fertile ground for protest, for civil rights activism, for a movement to say that our communities deserve to have a manifestation of that dream of equity, of equality, of fair employment and equal rights.

There were so many even environmental rights that came out of the civil rights movement that led to the Fair Housing Act, after the assassination of Dr. King.

All of that was realized in Rocky Mount.

- Wow, and you said it so beautifully, right?

What we saw in Washington was the culmination of all the work that had been done for years prior to.

You mentioned that there were other North Carolina-based newspapers and organizations, media outlets.

What are some that are still existing today, and how did they play a role in this historical event?

- So some of the publications, the press that still exists today, is like "The Charlotte Post."

They've been around since 1918.

"The Carolina Times" in Durham, since 1919.

My great-grandmother was born in 1919.

When we talk about "The Triangle Tribune," since 1998, "Fayetteville Press," since 1990.

And then of course, "The Carolina Peacemaker."

We have "The Carolinian."

So, and there are scores more.

Like, that's the incredible part, is if folks, you know, do a little bit of a quick Google search to look up, you know, "what are North Carolina, Black-owned, North Carolina newspapers and publications today," it's available.

And so those are just a few.

And I also wanna honor individual Black journalists and historians such as Lewis Brandon III.

And I really give credit, because oftentimes we also don't hear that there were powerful media, Black media in Western North Carolina.

He came from Western North Carolina, but he actually covered Bennett College because he was a student at A&T University.

He was a part of the integration of Greensboro A&T, when we talk about the counter, and sitting and actually desegregation, he was a part of that movement- - Mm.

- Right, and he was also one of the founders of the Greensboro Poor People's Campaign.

And he's now a part of the Beloved Community Center in Greensboro, which he has been with the Johnsons for years.

Okay, these are examples of folks who are still with us today, whether it is Black media publications, newspapers, outlets, or individuals who have not only documented Rocky Mount when Dr. King was there, they also documented Bennett College when Dr. King was there, and other areas within the civil rights movement was documented by these press and others.

- Yeah, so explain how difficult it was.

I mean, this was during a time where our voices were not qualified to be heard, did not want to be heard.

How difficult was it for these individuals, these publications, these organizations to come together and say, "We are going to form a formal organized unit, or I'm going to go out and I'm going to share the stories."

We know how important stories are.

How difficult was it for them to come out and and speak as they have?

- Yeah, I mean, that is such a great question, and the reason I start to smile is because our, in the face of difficulty, you know me.

I always like to back up a little bit in history, because it didn't start in the civil rights movement.

That's, you know, and I like to say, as we were talking about at the beginning of this conversation, that the climax of, for example, the March on Washington, the climax of these moments, didn't happen just random.

That's the same thing with Black media.

The U.S. Black press is 176 years old.

- [Kenia] Mm.

- 176 years old.

- [Menia] Wow.

- It began in 1827.

There were two individuals.

I believe it was John Russwurm and Samuel Cornish, and they started the "Freedom's Journal" in New York, the same year that slavery was abolished in New York, 1827.

This goes back.

We see emancipation for every state in the 1860s, 1865.

But folks don't realize that individual states had decisions, and some of them made those decisions legally to abolish slavery before 1865.

New York was one of those.

And so this newspaper began as a formalization, but it was already happening.

Town criers and the difficulty, and the struggle to abolish slavery, that was the impetus of Black media.

And so when the "Freedom's Journal" began and was formalized 176 years ago, it was about abolition.

And then by the Civil War, 40 Black newspapers were being published.

And during the 1920s and the '30s, other papers, right, that were not Black-owned, they virtually ignored Black America.

And so that was the glory days, the Great Depression era, World War II.

All of this was being documented by Black press, and they were reporting on job opportunities and retailers.

A lot of folks don't even realize that the "Chicago Defender," in Chicago, they were the catalyst for the Black Migration.

- Wow.

- Because they were documenting what jobs were available, and telling folks that because of the KKK, the Klan was still harming folks.

In Wilmington, 1898, the Black press was, all of, you know, almost decimated.

Folks were, you know, murdered.

They lost their lives.

This was the attack on Black press in 1898.

So the outgrowth, we saw the "Chicago Defender" years ago, and other publications like in Philadelphia were saying, "Y'all need to move north."

So the difficulties and the challenges, Kenia, they were very reminiscent of that time during slavery.

And the tradition kept going that yes, the Klan was still harming communities, churches were still being burned.

We heard that if you listen to Dr. King's speech, which the recording is available now online, I believe on ABC, you'll hear the same refrain over and over again.

The lack of equal housing and the lack of fair wages, and it was still the same impact, and it was still the challenge of meeting abolition.

And what we saw was this generational, and we see it today too.

We saw this generational carrying of this legacy.

But, so the challenges were grand.

People were being terrorized just for simply voting.

And these newspapers in the face of that, were not only telling people where to vote, when to vote, who to vote for, there were also such publications like "The Green Book," that also told folks how to safely- - Right.

- Get to that hotel, and which hotel to go to.

- Yeah.

- Safely told folks which amusement park.

So those are just some challenges, Kenia.

- And you know, for all points and purposes, they fought the fight just as hard, but with their words.

And I, you know, as a journalist, I love that.

Talk about, I think you've kind of already alluded to some, but some of the longstanding impacts that has been made because of Black media, that we experience today.

- Absolutely, so, you know, I already mentioned the "Chicago Defender," and this is a really, and I'll mention a few.

I'll highlight some.

The "Chicago Defender" actually had a columnist, and hopefully folks are familiar with his name, Langston Hughes.

- [Kenia] Mm-hmm.

- He was a poet, an author.

And history has told, and authors have told, right, revealed that Dr. King was actually inspired by poems created by Langston Hughes that discussed the dream.

- [Kenia] Mm.

- And so the "Chicago Defender," he was a regular columnist.

It was a national, concerted, and organized effort of elevating Black thought, Black political ideas and economic dreams, that even influenced the very words that we are honoring from Dr. King and his legacy this week, right?

The "Chicago Defender" was founded in 1905.

It was one of the greatest newspapers that were published, not the only.

As I said before, it jump started the Great Migration.

In 1932, "The Courier" publisher, I believe, was Robert L. Vann.

Abbott and others, that was actually what led the transition from the old antiquated Republican Party to moving voters to the new Democratic Party.

And that is what determined, and helping to elect Franklin D. Roosevelt to president.

- Wow.

- We saw similarities in our current elections, when we say Black voters are the, you know, who make or break who wins elections.

We saw the previous presidential election.

It was the same thing in the top of the 1900s, because Black press was on the cutting edge of, "These are the issues, and these are the folks who are going to put our issues into policy."

In 1928, our Black media helped elect Oscar De Priest, the first Black congressman after Reconstruction.

And it pushed Harry Truman, President Truman, to integrate the U.S. military in the 1940s because they had a Double V Campaign.

It was both victory against Hitler abroad, and victory against racism at home, were the pieces that our people were fighting, and the Black press came up with that narrative to convey that message.

And that message landed so seriously, that it set a standard for wartime news coverage, where other press outlets had to respond to the waves that Black media caused.

And that is what helped integrate the U.S. military in 1948.

We saw the same thing with authors who, because of these issues, those issues, and readers reading those issues, that is what informed the leaders of the Black civil rights movement, and those issues went forward around voting rights, 1957, around school desegregation in 1954, around the marches and sit-ins and civil rights legislations of 1964.

It started with a narrative.

Black media is on the forefront, and has been.

And that's some of the impact, not all.

- Not all.

- But some.

- You are always such a great wealth of knowledge.

You always come so prepared, things that I didn't even know of.

You know, you talk about today, it's still such a great wealth of knowledge, Black media, but I question, have we lost some of our integrity in news delivery as Black media, as Black journalists, as we're competing with bigger and more diverse news outlets, in trying to just stay relevant, in a sense, and stay being seen.

- Yeah, another really great question, Kenia, very thought provoking.

I always appreciate your questions, because it makes me dig a little bit deeper and analyze the why or the how.

- Yeah.

- And I think that's a sociologist's brain, at least a little bit.

[Kenia laughs] But when we talk about have we lost integrity, we have to understand that they're, just like, we saw attacks on our churches when we say the burnings, when we saw attacks on our voting rights, when we saw you know, attacks on our human rights.

So we saw all these issues.

There were also attacks on Black media, right?

There was a study, a guide that was commissioned by, I believe it was the U.S. Department of Commerce, that tracked the time from 1961, and was published in 1966.

And this guide was a how-to marketing plan, how to market to Black community, to get our, at that time in the 1960s, our $27 billion annual spending power.

1960s, we had that much spending power, and there was documents published.

- Say that number again, how much?

- 27 billion with a B.

- Wow.

- In 1966, when this was published, this is what was recorded in this guide by the U.S. Department of Commerce, as being our spending power.

And the guide was how to market in order to access, how could businesses in the U.S. government access our spending power?

Because at that time we were circulating.

We had Black-owned communities in over 24 states, right?

We talk about Tulsa, Oklahoma.

That's an example.

There were so many others.

So why do I say this?

Because these were organized efforts to say, "How can we tap into that economic revenue, that's being circulated in these communities by Black press?"

Right?

And so then we saw this rise of, you know, transitioning media, right?

We have newspapers, obviously radio, which was, you know, mentioned as being a really huge influence in Black community.

But then years later, the emergence of social media and internet, and TV.

So when you talk about the integrity, we have to identify that when moments like BET, for example, were sold, and that's a really good point.

The channeling changed, some of the programs changed, and so the response was different, and newspapers kinda had to pick up labor in reporting when that media outlet was not the same anymore.

And so sometimes the integrity, I always say, it has shifted.

But we always have to look beyond the veil to say, okay, what political shifts, what policies, what economic impacts shifted the ability for Black media to report in community, the same way that it did prior to the civil rights movement?

And that includes technology.

And you know, I think, we'll probably get into this a little bit later, so I'll save the breadth of my comments.

But today, Black press is very, very thriving, and alive and well.

But it looks a little different.

- Right.

- And that's what I meant right at the top of the conversation is, we have to identify what we are presently achieving in our movement.

We have to identify what we've done in history to identify what we're doing now, and then we can do a deeper comparison analysis of what have we lost, what have we gained, and where are we leading?

- Mm-hmm, speaking of where we're leading, I know one of the conversations I had with the Kilimanjaros was just staying competitive, right?

Like you said, shifting to a more digital platform, using technology, using AI.

And I know, we had a lot more questions that we discussed before this, but our time is almost up and it feels like we just got started.

So I'll just jump to this, because I wanna talk about, what does the future look like for Black media organizations, and how integral is collaboration for future success?

- Oh, that's such a great question.

All right, so we'll try to wrap this up.

- Just a couple minutes I think, so- - Okay.

- Yeah.

- So when recognizing that Black media press, we also have to include social media in that bucket.

When we talk about, for example, Twitter, there are over 19 million African Americans on Twitter, as recorded a couple years ago, and 9.3 million, about 20% of that total pool, are on what we call Black Twitter.

Now, why is that important?

Because in COVID-19, we heard that institutional Black press like newspapers, that what we are accustomed to being in our community traditionally, they, you know, mentioned that, hey, while impacts were happening, and we heard this from a publication in Mississippi, they said that COVID-19 allowed an opportunity to revamp how their approach to their audience was.

And that revamp was holding virtual conversations.

That revamp was sending out electronic newsletters.

That revamp was engaging in social media.

So what's happening in collaborations is identifying and understanding community unification, which is the whole point of Dr. King's legacy.

It was about that unification and then having that strategy, that coordinated strategy, to amplify the messages of what is impacting our communities today.

Whether it's voting rights, whether it's human rights, when we talk about environmental justice, whatever the topic may be, that's what we go to the precipice of.

And we understand that Black journalism is alive and well.

And social media, oftentimes we don't identify that there are millions of followers on TikTok, millions of people who are engaging with Black content makers.

That's Black price.

And before, we may have had one television station.

Before, we may have had to fight in order to have our newspapers in circulation.

Now, folks pick up an iPhone, and it went from typewriter to keyboard.

- Right.

- Right.

- Right?

- And that is the collaborations that will be imperative today to make sure that we honor such a legacy like "The Carolina Peacemaker," to honor who has been around to build this infrastructure for us to be able to understand how, when, and where to do cutting news on TikTok.

- Yeah.

[laughs] - That's us being collaborative, and also making sure that we are also subscribing- - Yeah.

- Not only to the newspapers, not only to the NNPA, which is a national publisher association that's been around, that was founded by the founders of the "Chicago Defender."

But also subscribe to those TikTok YouTubers and Instagram folks.

- And with that, I'm gonna pause you right there, La'Meshia.

Such a great conversation.

Always, always so resourceful and insightful.

Thank you La'Meshia Whittington for your comments on this.

We invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum, and on the PBS video app.

Thanks for watching.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

[light contemporary music] ♪ - [Announcer] "Black Issues Forum" is a production of PBS North Carolina, with support from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.