CLLR.

LOUIJEUNE: I AM SUE O'’CONNELL ASKED TONIGHT ON GREATER BOSTON, MATT MORGAN AT ARBOUR HOSPITAL LEADERSHIP OVER UNIT EFFORTS.

I'’LL TALK TO ONE OF THE RESIDENT PHYSICIANS BEHIND THE PUSH AND A BOSTON'’S CITY COUNCIL OR LINNING SUPPORT TO THEIR FIGHT.

SUE: THEN BOSTON TRAVEL WRITER CHRISTOPHER MUTHER ON THE HOUSE THAT GOT INTO THE PANDEMIC.

THE BEST STRING STORED ON A PLANE.

AND WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT NEW BIG RED BUILDING OVER AT LOGAN.

SUE: BURNOUT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A DIFFICULTY FOR HEALTH-CARE WORKERS, FOR WHOM LONG HOURS AND STRETCH AS PART OF THE JOB.

THE PANDEMIC HAS MADE HIM THINK THAT MUCH HARDER.

AND IN RESPONSE TO THE DOCTORS, NURSES AND OTHER MEDICAL STAFF HAVE BEEN LEAVING THE FIELD AT ALARMING RATES.

IT'’S ALSO WANTED A WAVE OF UNIONIZATION EFFORTS AMONG THOSE LEFT BEHIND.

INCLUDING HERE IN BOSTON.

AT MASS GENERAL BRIGHAM, THE HEALTH CARE NETWORK BEHIND BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'’S AT MASS GENERAL HOSPITALS AMONG OTHERS, RESIDENTS, FELLOWS AND INTERNS HAVE SIGNED THEIR SUPPORT FOR A UNION.

AND BECAUSE MASS GENERAL BRIGHAM HAS REFUSED TO VOLUNTARILY RECOGNIZE THEM, ORGANIZERS ARE LOOKING AHEAD TO FORMAL ELECTION OVERSEEN BY THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD.

THE EFFORT HAS GOTTEN BACKING FROM CITY LEADERS LIKE CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT ED FLYNN, AND RUTHZEE LOUIJEUNE, -- RUTHZEE LOUIJEUNE, WHO HAVE JOINED UNION ADVOCATES TO STORE THEIR SUPPORT.

THE COUNSELOR JOINS ME NOW, ALONG WITH DR. SASHA MARIA, INTERNAL MEDICINE -- MARELLA, ONE OF THE LEADERS BEHIND THE UNITIZATION EFFORTS.

WE ALSO REACH OUT TO INVITE A REPRESENTATIVE FROM MASS GENERAL BRIGHAM TO JOIN US BUT THEY DECLINED AND SENT A STATEMENT INSTEAD WHICH I WILL GET TO IN A LITTLE BIT.

THANK YOU AND WELCOME TO BUBBLE THROUGH.

-- BOTH OF YOU.

CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THE ISSUES ARE, DOCTOR, THAT YOU ARE FACING THAT YOU FEEL ARE NOT BEING ADDRESSED AND THEREFORE YOU ARE LOOKING AT A UNION?

DR. MURILLO: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME HERE TODAY.

THINK A LOT OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE AS RESIDENTS IN THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM ARE PRETTY UNIVERSAL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE ARE -- WE LURK -- WORK LONG HOURS AND MANY WEEKS WE WORKED 80 PLUS HOURS.

WE FACE POOR WORKING CONDITIONS, I KNOW MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE SPENT A NIGHT ON A YOGA MAT ON THE FLOOR AND HAVE NOT HAD ACCESS TO CALL ROOMS WHEN WE ARE DOING 24 HOUR SHIFTS.

AND THEN THERE ARE YOUR BENEFITS AND SALARY.

WE LIVE IN ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE CITIES IN THE COUNTRY.

AND WE STRUGGLED TO PAY OUR RENT WHEN WE ARE SADDLED WITH HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN DEBT.

ALSO, FOREGOING EARNINGS AND -- IN OTHER FIELDS, WITHOUT ACCESS TO RETIREMENT BENEFITS LIKE OTHER PEOPLE IN OTHER INDUSTRIES.

THOSE ARE JUST SOME OF THE THINGS.

SUE: DR., AS I AM PARSING THROUGH THIS AND TALKING TO OLDER DOCTORS AND HEARING COMMENTS, SOME OF THEM ARE SAYING THIS IS JUST HOW IT IS AND HOW IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN.

NONE OF US GOT ANY SLEEP WHILE WE WERE RESIDENTS, ALL OF US HAVE LIVED IN BOSTON WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN EXPENSIVE.

WHY IS IT DIFFERENT FOR YOUR GENERATION?

DR. MURILLO: I THINK THAT WHEN WE SAY WE HAVE DONE SOMETHING ONE WEIGHT WE SHOULD ALWAYS QUESTION WHY.

IT IS THIS REALLY THE WAY WE NEED TO CONTINUE DOING THINGS?

-- AND IS THIS REALLY THE WAY WE NEED TO CONTINUE DOING THINGS.

MOST OF MY TIME IS IN THE HOSPITAL, THAT IS WHERE THE HOSPITAL MAKES THE MOST MONEY FOR MY LABOR, STAFFING INPATIENT AND CRITICAL CARE UNITS.

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO RETHINK RESIDENCY TRAINING AND WHO IS IT REALLY FOR, IS IT FOR THE HOSPITAL OR FOR US?

SUE: THIS IS THE RESPONSE THAT WE GOT FROM THE HOSPITAL.

THEY SAY WHY WE SHARED THE GOAL OF OFFERING A WORLD-CLASS EXPERIENCE, WE BELIEVE WE CAN ACHIEVE THE BEST RESULTS BY WORKING TOGETHER IN DIRECT PARTNERSHIP RATHER THAN THROUGH REPRESENTATIVES IN A PROCESS THAT CAN LEAD TO CONFLICT AND POTENTIALLY RISK THE CONTINUITY OF PATIENT CARE.

WE ARE COMMITTED TO CONTINUING OUR DIALOGUE WITH OUR TRAINEES, AND BUILDING ON A NUMBER OF ACHIEVEMENTS, INCLUDING MARKET-LEADING INCREASES IN COMPENSATION, RETIREMENT SAVINGS, AND HEALTH CARE.

COUNSELOR, WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT RESPONSE, THAT STATEMENT?

CLLR.

LOUIJEUNE: WELL, I THINK THE GOOD DOCTOR SAID THAT THE BEST WAY.

THESE DOCTORS HAVE BEEN, DR.

TRAINEES, RESIDENTS, AND FELLOWS, THEY HAVE SACRIFICED A LOT.

I DON'’T SEE ANY WAY SUPPORTING A UNION IS DISRUPTED -- DISRUPTIVE.

IT ACTUALLY ENSURES THAT WE GIVE THEM THE BEST CARE POSSIBLE BECAUSE DOCTORS ARE WELL RESTED, DOCTORS FEEL LIKE THEIR EMPLOYER CARED FOR THEM.

WE STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH WORKERS, WHETHER DOCTORS OR FOLKS WHO WORK AT A LOCAL CONVENIENCE STORE.

THEY NEED TO BE THERE TO FILL THAT GAP WHEN EMPLOYERS ARE NOT HELPING WORKERS, WHO ARE AN IMPORTANT PART OF MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE EFFICIENT AND PATIENT CARE.

I WOULD JUST AGREE AND SUPPORT THE DEDICATION OF THESE DR.

TRAINEES IN ADVOCATING FOR THEIR UNION.

SUE: WHAT ARE YOU SEEING AROUND THE CITY REGARDING UNION ORGANIZERS AND ORGANIZATIONS, AN ODD PLACE IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE THE POWER OF UNIONS NATIONALLY SEEMS TO HAVE DECREASED AND UNION MEMBERSHIP HAS DECREASED AND MY DAD WAS A TEAMSTER IN THE 1960'’S AND MY MOM WAS A SHOP STEWARD AND I DON'’T KNOW ANYBODY WHO IS IN THE UNION -- A UNION DESPITE HAVING GROWN UP AROUND THEM.

BUT WE SEE A YOUNGER GENERATION OF PEOPLE BOTH DOCTORS AND STARBUCKS WORKERS AND FOLKS ALL AROUND THE CITY TRYING TO GET THE UNIONS BACK UP AND BEING HELPFUL AGAIN.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON WHAT IS HAPPENING MR. MUTHER: CLLR.

LOUIJEUNE: FIRST OF ALL, BOSTON IS A UNION TOWN, AND WE ARE HERE TO STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH THE WORK.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT WE SAY THAT WHETHER THEY ARE DR.

TRAINEES LIKE I STATED, FOLKS WHO HAVE SPENT A THINK OF GETS AMOUNT OF TIME IN SCHOOL AND ARE NOW OUT THERE TO BECOME DOCTORS, OR WHETHER YOU ARE A NURSING ASSISTANT OR A RAT -- JANITOR AT THE HOSPITAL, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE FILLING IN THAT GAP SO THAT WORKERS ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE WHIMS OF CORPORATE GREED.

AND SO IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE STAYED IN THAT GAP AND IT HAS NOT JUST HAPPENED IN THE CITY OF BOSTON, WE SEE IT HAPPENING WITH AMAZON, PEOPLE REALIZING THAT WE ARE NOT STANDING UP FOR OURSELVES, AND WE ARE GETTING RAILROADED.

IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE STAND WITH WORKERS AND THEIR ABILITY TO UNIONIZE SO THAT FOLKS CAN HAVE LIVING WAGES, CAREERS, BENEFITS, AND THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO RETIRE WITH DIGNITY.

AND WE ALL NEED REST.

NONE OF US ARE COGS IN A WHEEL OR WIDGETS.

WE ARE PEOPLE.

PEOPLE WHO REQUIRE WEST -- REST.

THE DOCTOR -- AS THE DOCTOR ALSO SAID, JUST BECAUSE IT HAS DONE -- BEEN DONE ONE WAY DOES NOT MEET -- NOT MEAN IT SHOULD BE DONE THAT WAY ALWAYS.

I AM A LAWYER, AND I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE STEPS SO THE NEXT GENERATION DOES NOT HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THE SAME CHALLENGES.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE INFUSING MORE COMPASSION INTO OUR SYSTEMS AND YOU DO THAT WITH UNIONS.

UNIONS RECOGNIZE THAT WORKERS ARE PEOPLE AND HUMANS WHO DESERVE TO BE VALUED WHEN SYSTEMS SOMETIMES JUST SEE INDIVIDUALS AS COGS IN A WILL.

I STAND INCREDIBLY WITH OUR INTERNS AND OUR FELLOWS WHO HAVE TAKEN THE EXTREME EXAMPLE WHERE WE SEE NOW OF COURAGE AND DEDICATION, ALREADY WORKING SO MANY HOURS A WEEK AND ORGANIZING.

AND I JUST WANT TO SAY, MY SISTER ORGANIZE HER WORK WITH THE TEAMSTERS LAST YEAR.

THE TEAMSTERS ARE STILL AROUND.

SUE: DR., I WANT TO ASK YOU A COUPLE PUSH BACK QUESTIONS FROM PEOPLE I HAVE TALKED TO.

PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED, I CAN'’T EVEN GET INTO THE IDEA OF WORKING, DOCTORS WORKING AN 80 HOUR WEEK AND THEN TELLING US THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE WORKING AN 80 HOUR WEEK.

DEFINITELY FALLS INTO THE PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH SITUATION.

ANY OF US WHO HAVE LOOKED IN THE EYES OF A DOCTOR WHO WE KNOW HAS BEEN WORKING MORE THAN 60 OR 70 HOURS IN AN EMERGENCY ROOM DOES NOT MAKE ME -- I KNOW HOW STUPID I GET AT THE END OF THE NIGHT WHEN I HAVE NOT HAD A LOT OF SLEEP.

NONETHELESS, IF WE AGREED THAT THOSE HOURS ARE TOO MUCH, THERE ARE CONCERNS THAT WOULD CHANGE THE ENTIRE SHAPE OF A RED -- RESIDENCY PROGRAM, THAT IT WILL NOT GIVE YOU ENOUGH TIME TO LEARN WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO BE A VERY GOOD DOCTOR.

DR. MURILLO: ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO PUSH BACK ON THAT ON A FEW -- IN A FEW DIFFERENT WAYS.

ONE, THERE'’S RESPECTING THE LIMITS.

THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO, THE ACCREDITING BODY SETS AN 80 HOUR WORK WEEK LIMIT.

AND YET MANY PEOPLE IN SOME SURGICAL SPECT -- SPECIALTIES WILL GO BEYOND THAT AND UNDERREPORT THEIR HOURS.

WE ARE ASKING THAT WE JUST SORT OF RESPECT THE LIMITS THAT WE SET FORTH.

THAT IS NUMBER ONE.

AND THEN NUMBER TWO, AS YOU SAID, HOW MUCH ARE WE LEARNING, IF WE ARE BURNT OUT AT THE END OF AN 80 HOUR WORK WEEK.

AT SOME POINT, SO MUCH OF OUR WORK IS A LOT OF -- IT LEADS TO BURNOUT IN FIELDS BEYOND RESIDENCY AND AT LEVELS BEYOND RESIDENCY, WE DEAL WITH A LOT OF PAPERWORK AND PRIOR AUTHORIZATIONS TO TRY TO GET OUR PATIENTS THE MEDICATION THEY NEED.

WE ARE DEALING WITH A LOT OF SYSTEMIC BARRIERS THAT ARE ALSO IMPACTING OUR EDUCATION ALREADY.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE 80 HOUR WORK WEEK IS AN ARBITRARY DETERMINANT OF HOW MUCH EDUCATION WE ARE ACTUALLY GETTING.

AND THE QUALITY IS WHAT MATTERS.

SUE: WHAT ABOUT THE ISSUE OF WHO PAYS FOR IT?

IF WE ALL AGREED THAT YOU SHOULD BE PAID MORE AND WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE WE ALL PAY FOR OUR OWN HEALTH CARE, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, WHEREWITH THE COSTS GET ABSORBED FOR PAYING MORE FOR RESIDENTS WORK?

DR. MURILLO: THAT CAN BE ANSWERED ON A FEW LEVELS.

OUR HOSPITAL SYSTEM HAS THE RESOURCES TO DO THIS.

JUST UNDER THE THREAT OF THE UNION, THEY WERE ABLE TO FIND THE MONEY TO BE ABLE TO OFFER US A READY SALARY RATES FOR THE NEXT YEAR AND OTHER INCREASED BENEFITS.

BUT I THINK ON A LARGER SCALE, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS UNDERFUNDED RESIDENCY FOR MANY YEARS.

WE HAVE NOT INCREASED THE NUMBER OF RESIDENCY SPOTS SINCE THE 80'’S.

AND IN A COUNTRY WHERE OUR HEALTH CARE NEEDS ARE GETTING MORE AND MORE COMPLEX BY THE DECADE, THAT HAS NOT CHANGED FOR MANY YEARS AND ULTIMATELY A NEW ANSWERED IF YOU COME FROM ABOVE.

SUE: AS FOLKS WHO WATCH THE SHOW OR PAY ATTENTION TO ME NO, MY FAMILY USES HEALTH CARE A LOT, I HAVE A KID WITH A CHRONIC ILLNESS, WE HAVE THREE DOCTORS APPOINTMENTS A WEEK, IT IS HELL TRYING TO GET APPOINTMENTS.

THREE PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS IN TWO YEARS, PEOPLE ARE LEAVING.

AND JUST THE ADMINISTRATIVE FOLKS WHO ARE TRYING TO DO THEIR BEST TO GET APPOINTMENTS, IT IS A NIGHTMARE.

THIS IS IN BOSTON, ONE OF THE GREATEST HOSPITALS IN THE WORLD.

DR., WHAT IS YOUR STATEMENT ABOUT, DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE IN A POSITION OF POWER BECAUSE OF THE RETIREMENT AND BURNOUT THAT YOU HOPE THIS LEVERAGE WILL ALLOW YOU TO GET WHAT YOU WANT WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO A UNION OR DO YOU THINK THE UNION IS THE PATH YOU WILL TAKE?

DR. MURILLO: THE UNION IS A PATH WE NEED TO TAKE, THE ONLY PATH WHERE WE CAN ENSURE THESE BENEFITS WILL LIVE ON IN PERPETUITY.

IT IS THE WAY WE FEEL THAT WE HAVE AGENCY.

WHEN WE ARE FACED WITH BURNOUT, WE FEEL EMPOWERED WHEN WE ARE RESPECTED AND OUR VOICES ARE RESPECTED.

I TAKE ISSUE ACTUALLY WITH MANY PARTS OF THE SENATE.

IN PARTICULAR THE STATEMENT THAT I THINK THAT MGP PUT FORTH THAT SUGGESTS THAT THERE IS SOME KIND OF INTERLOPER THAT SORT OF NEGOTIATES OUR CONTRACT.

WE ARE YOU -- THE UNION.

THE RESIDENTS OF THE UNION.

WE ARE ASKING FOR A DIRECT COURTSHIP AS A UNION.

WE THINK THAT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO MAKE SURE OUR VOICES ARE HEARD AND TO MAKE SURE TO USE THIS PLATFORM TO ADVOCATE FOR OUR PATIENTS AS WELL.

WE ARE THE ONES ON THE FRONT LINES, ALONG WITH THEIR SUZANNE PCAS.

WE SEE THAT ISSUE -- ISSUES DAY-TO-DAY.

SO MANY DECISIONS COME FROM THE TOP DOWN AND WE FEEL THAT THIS IS OUR PLATFORM WHERE WE CAN RACE SOME OF THOSE ISSUES ACROSS THE SYSTEM.

SUE: COUNSEL, ONE OF THE UNDER SYSTEM -- UNDERPINNINGS OF THIS SYSTEM IS HOUSING AND HOW EXPENSIVE IT IS TO LIVE HERE, WANTING TO ATTRACT WORLD-CLASS PEOPLE TO WORK IN A WORLD-CLASS HOSPITAL AND THEY CANNOT AFFORD IT EVEN ON A GOOD SALARY.

DOES THE CITY COUNCIL, WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH CORPORATIONS AND HOSPITALS AND THE COLLEGES HERE, DOES THIS COME INTO PLAY THAT WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT HOUSING IF WE WANT TO KEEP PEOPLE COMING HERE AND WORKING HERE AND LIVING HERE?

CLLR.

LOUIJEUNE: ABSOLUTELY.

IT'’S A QUESTION THAT WE DEAL WITH ALL THE TIME.

WE ARE THE SECOND MOST EXPENSIVE CITY TO RENT.

YOU HAVE TO MAKE MORE THAN $180,000 IF YOU WANT TO PURCHASE A HOME IN THE CITY OF BOSTON.

IT IS SOMETHING WE ARE GRAPPLING WITH.

OR THAN HALF OF THE DOLLARS WE RECEIVED OUR OFFER DOLLARS, WE ALLOCATED $200 MILLION TO HOUSING, RENTAL AND HOMEOWNERSHIP TO GRAPPLE WITH THIS PROBLEM.

AND TOMORROW I AM COSPONSORING A HEARING OF PAYMENTS IN LIEU OF TAXES, A LOT OF OUR UNIVERSITIES HAVE NONPROFIT STATUS HERE IN THE CITY OF BOSTON WAS IS DEPRIVING US OF NEXT REVENUE BECAUSE THEY DON'’T PAY TAXES.

AND SO THERE IS A PAYMENT IN LIEU OF TAX PROGRAM THAT REQUIRES THEM TO EITHER PAY INTO THE CITY WITH COMMUNITY BENEFITS OR AND CASH PAYMENTS.

NOT ALL OF THEM ONTO THAT.

IT IS ONE OF THOSE -- IT IS THOSE PAYMENTS THAT CAN HELP US BUILD A HOUSING IN GENERAL.

BOTH AN AFFORDABLE ISSUE IN THE CITY, AND A CONSTRUCTION ISSUE IS PRESENT.

WE NEED TO BE BUILDING MORE HOUSING AND WE NEED TO TACKLE BOTH OF THAT, AND THE COUNCIL ACKNOWLEDGED UNANIMOUSLY THAT WE NEED TO WORK TO KEEP GOOD DOCTORS HERE, LIKE MY FELLOW GUESTS HERE, AND MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE NOT OVERBURDENED.

WE ARE DOING WHAT WE CAN AND MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE.

SUE: ONCE THE NEXT STEP, DR. -- WHAT IS THE NEXT STEP, DR.?

DR. MURILLO: WE ARE ASKING THEM TO WORK WITH US STRICTLY SO WE CAN GET TO AN ELECTION BEFORE THE AT -- END OF THE ACADEMIC YEAR.

THEY ARE TRYING TO DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM SUPPORTING OUR UNION EFFORTS AND WE REALLY WANT TO JUST WORK IN GOOD FAITH AND GET TO AN ELECTION QUICKLY.

SUE: I THINK BOTH OF YOU FOR JOINING US AND GOOD LUCK TO BOTH OF YOU.

-- THANK BOTH OF YOU FOR JOINING US AND GOOD LUCK TO BOTH OF YOU.

NEXT, WHILE DOCTORS STRUGGLE THROUGH THE PANDEMIC, SO DID THOSE OF US STUCK AT HOME.

THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY HOURS OF NETFLIX THAT YOU CAN WATCH AND SOMEBODY WALKS AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD YOU CAN TAKE OR CATCH UP PHONE CONVERSATION WITH FRIENDS YOU CAN HAVE BEFORE YOU START TO REALLY LOSE YOUR GRIP.

AND FOR BOSTON GLOBE TRAVEL WRITER CHRIS PHONE -- CHRISTOPHER MUTHER, HOME IS WHERE HE BROUGHT OUT HIS LOWEST MOMENTS AND FOUND SALVATION.

IN ONE OF HIS LATEST FOR THE BOSTON GLOBE HE LOOKS BACK ON THE EARLY DAYS OF COVID WHEN HE AND HIS HUSBAND, WHO WAS A DOCTOR FIGHTING THE DISEASE, FOUND THEIR DREAM HOME JUST WHEN THEY NEEDED IT MOST.

HE NOW CREDITS THE HOUSE AND THE RENOVATIONS THAT THEY'’VE MADE TO IT WITH BRINGING HIM BACK TO HIS FEET WRITING, I THINK THE HOUSE EVERY NIGHT FOR THE FIRST YEAR WE LIVED THERE.

I LIKE TO THINK THAT IF IT COULD HOUSE WOULD SAY THANK YOU THE WAY I OFTEN THINK THE HOUSE FOR SAVING ME.

CHRISTOPHER JOYCE ME NOW FOR MORE ON THAT JOURNEY AND SOME TRAVEL TRIPS FOR YOUR NEXT TRIP.

IT'’S SO GREAT TO SEE YOU, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

MR. MUTHER: IT'’S GREAT TO SEE YOU.

SUE: THANKS FOR SHARING IN THAT ARTICLE, TALKING ABOUT OUR MENTAL HEALTH, YOUR MENTAL HEALTH, AND BEFORE WE JUMP INTO THE HOUSE ASPECT OF IT, WHAT DOES CATHERINE ZETA JONES HAVE TO DO WITH YOU?

MR. MUTHER: BACK IN 2011, CATHERINE ZETA JONES WAS ON THE COVER OF PEOPLE MAGAZINE TALKING ABOUT HER PRIVATE BATTLE WITH BIPOLAR TWO.

WHICH I THOUGHT, MAYBE IT IS NOT A PRIVATE STRUGGLE IF IT IS ON THE COVER OF PEOPLE MAGAZINE WITH HER TALKING ABOUT IT.

BIPOLAR TWO IS SORT OF A VARIATION OF THE BIPOLAR THAT WE ALL KNOW.

IT MEANS THE DEPRESSIVE PERIODS ARE A LITTLE LONGER AND THE MANIC EPISODES AREN'’T QUITE AS SPIKED.

TO JUMP IN AND TALK ABOUT CATHERINE ZETA JONES IN CONTEXT, AND NOT CHICAGO OR OTHER THINGS SHE HAS DONE, AT THE SAME TIME THAT SHE WAS ON THE COVER OF PEOPLE MAGAZINE REVEALING HER DIAGNOSIS FOR BIPOLAR TWO, I WAS ALSO DIAGNOSED WITH BIPOLAR TWO.

OVER THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS, THAT WAS 2011, OVER THE YEARS I MANAGED TO FIND MEDICATIONS THAT HELP TO SORT OF FUNCTION DAY-DAY -- DAY-TO-DAY AS WELL AS ANYONE CAN.

THAT BRINGS US TO THE HOUSE IN THE PANDEMIC WHERE DURING THE PANDEMIC AS MANY OF US STRUGGLE, I THINK THOSE OF US WHO HAVE MENTAL ILLNESS MIGHT HAVE YOU KNOW, I HAVE FELT IT A BIT MORE AND THAT WAS DEFINITELY THE CASE FOR ME.

SUE: AND ALSO, LIKE YOU, WHEN YOU HAVE A JOB THAT HAS YOU DOING THINGS OUTSIDE, FOLKS ASKING TRAVEL WRITER, WAS IT LIKE BEING STUCK AT HOME -- WHAT IS IT LIKE BEING STUCK AT HOME?

I HAD YOU ON THE SHOW AND I ASKED YOU WHAT IT WAS LIKE, AND NOW I FEEL BAD.

MR. MUTHER: I WAS REFERRING TO YOU SPECIFICALLY.

SUE: BUT THE HOUSE THAT YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND FOUND AND PURCHASED, BUT YOU CAN GO INTO, AN -- A WHOLE OTHER EPISODE OF THE DELIGHT AND TRAUMA OF THAT, BUT WAS IT ABOUT THE RENOVATIONS THAT REALLY KIND OF FILTER YOUR SOUL AND KEPT YOU GROUNDED -- FILLED YOUR SOUL AND CAP YOU GROUNDED?

MR. MUTHER: WELL, IN THIS HOUSE, WE ARE IN THE METROWEST NOW, AND WE FOUND IT IN ONE OF THE LOWER POINTS OF THE PANDEMIC, THE SUMMER OF 2020.

WE MOVED IN IN NOVEMBER 2020.

AND BEFORE THAT TIME, I HAD BEEN REALLY STRUGGLING.

YOU KNOW, AS A TRAVEL WRITER, WHO IS GROUNDED, THINKING THAT I WOULD PROBABLY GET FIRED ANY DAY BECAUSE WHO NEEDS A TRAVEL WRITER DURING THE PANDEMIC YET, AND ALSO LOSING MY SENSE OF IDENTITY BECAUSE YOUR JOB IS OFTEN CONNECTED TO WHO YOU ARE AND HOW YOU FEEL.

WHEN THE HOUSE CAME ALONG IT TOOK US OUT OF SOUTH BOSTON WHERE WE WERE LIVING, AND IT GAVE ME ROOM TO BREATHE, AND AT THE SAME TIME IT GAVE ME THE DISTRACTING -- DISTRACTION THAT I DEFINITELY NEEDED.

SUE: I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY IT WAS ALSO IN MY EXPANSE WITH MY CHALLENGES AND THE PEOPLE AROUND ME, FINDING WHERE YOUR SPECIAL POWER, WHERE YOUR MENTAL HEALTH ORIENTATION IS, IS HOW I LOOK AT IT.

WHERE YOU CAN BEST USE THOSE POSITIVES, I THINK EVERY PERSON I KNOW, WHO IS ON THE BIPOLAR SPECTRUM, JUST GREAT STUFF WITH THEIR HOUSE.

OR GREAT STUFF WITH THEIR YARD, OR GREAT RENOVATIONS.

I AM ON THE ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER SPECTRUM, I DON'’T HAVE THE ATTEMPTED TO DO ANY OF THAT.

I'’M ALWAYS AMAZED.

DOES IT FEEL LIKE IT WAS TAKING YOUR MENTAL HEALTH ORIENTATION AND USING IT AS A SUPERPOWER?

MR. MUTHER: IT'’S IMAGED IN QUESTION.

I FEEL LIKE ON THE MANIC SWINGS, IT HELPS A LOT.

I OFTEN JOKE THAT THAT'’S WHEN OUR HOUSE IS THE CLEANEST.

WHEN I AM EXPERIENCING A MANIC EPISODE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK REALLY MY SUPERPOWER IS THAT I WAS SOMEONE WHO IS NEVER HOME BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

SUDDENLY I WAS HOME SO MUCH I BECAME OBSESSED WITH THE IDEA OF IT.

ONCE I GOT TO THE TRAUMA OF BEING HOME, I LOVED IT.

AND THEN THE HOUSE REALLY BECAME THE CENTER AND I FEEL LIKE THAT IS WHEN I HAD MY, I FOUND MY GROOVE, THE OTHER THING IS THAT THE HOUSE WAS A 1965 DECK HOUSE AND I REFER TO IT AS THE BRADY HOUSE.

IT HAS THAT LOOK ABOUT IT AND I AM UPSET WITH ANYTHING MID CENTURY RELATED.

IT REALLY JUST GAVE ME THE PERFECT SPRINGBOARD AND ALSO I AM A REALLY KIND OF INTENSE PERSON, WHEN IT COMES TO RESEARCH, BECAUSE OF MY JOB.

I WENT OFF THE RAILS WITH SURGERY -- RESEARCHING MIDCENTURY FURNITURE, WHICH SAVED ME THROUGH THE 2020 ELECTION.

I HAD THAT DISTRACTION.

SUE: AND THEN YOU ENDED UP WITH A BEAUTIFUL BATHTUB, WE GOT A PRESIDENT AND YOU ENDED UP WITH A BATHTUB.

I THINK IT'’S FINE.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THAT, IT'’S REALLY HELPFUL TO ALL OF US.

LET'’S SWITCH GEARS AND TALK ABOUT LOGAN AIRPORT.

THERE IS THAT BIG RED BUILDING THERE.

APPARENTLY BOSTON HAS A COLOR, AND IT IS PART OF OUR NEW GENERATION FOR LOGAN AIRPORT.

WHAT IS GOING ON?

SUE: WELL, -- MR. MUTHER: I SPOKE WITH THE ARCHITECT OF THE BUILDING, I THINK IT LOOKS LIKE A SPACESHIP THAT HAS LANDED THERE.

BUT I KIND OF LOVE IT BECAUSE IT IS SO DISTINCT.

THE ARCHITECT, LUIS NADAL, BASED IN MADRID, HE BOUGHT A HOUSE IN BOSTON THROUGH THIS PROCESS BECAUSE HE LIKES THE CITY SO MUCH.

ONE THING HE DID WAS THAT HE PATENTED A COLOR, BOSTON RED, WHICH HE BASED ON THINGS LIKE THE BRAKES, SUNSETS, EVEN THE RED SOX.

SO HE SPENT THREE DAYS IN A LAB IN SWITZERLAND COMING UP WITH A COLOR.

A COLOR HE THOUGHT WOULD WORK.

AND IT'’S BOSTON RED.

NO ONE ELSE CAN USE THIS COLOR UNLESS THEY HAVE PERMISSION FROM HIM.

SUE: IT WAS ALSO INTERESTING IN YOUR ARTICLE ON THE GLOBE ABOUT HIM ABOUT HIS PERSPECTIVE ON THE PASSENGERS AND WHO THEY BELONG TO, I WAS REALLY STRUCK THAT THE CITY THINKS THAT PASSENGERS BELONG TO US, THE AIRPORTS, THE AIRLINES, AND YET HE MAKES THE ARGUMENT THAT WHEN YOU ARE MAKING A TERMINAL, THE PASSENGER BELONGS TO THE PASSENGER AND THEY SHOULD BE FRONT AND CENTER IN IT.

MR. MUTHER: THE THING ABOUT, AS YOU KNOW, TERMINALS HAVE EVOLVED OVER THE YEARS.

THE ONE THAT I HAVE MOST LIVED THROUGH HAS BEEN THE TERMINAL AT THE SHOPPING MALL, WITH SORT OF LIMITED DINING OPTIONS, NOT -- AS A SHOPPING MALL, WITH SORT OF LIMITED DINING OPTIONS, LIMITED OPTIONS TO PLUG IN, IT'’S GETTING BETTER, HIT-OR-MISS IF YOU NEED TO DO WORK.

SO THE IDEA OF THE FOURTH-GENERATION AIRPORT IS THAT NOW THE PASSENGERS CAN DECIDE WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, YOU KNOW.

IT'’S NOT ALL STORES.

IT IS NOT ALL JUST A SERIES OF UNCOMFORTABLE BENCHES AT THE GATE.

THERE IS THE IDEA THAT THERE ARE PRIVATE AREAS, A NOKIA CAN HIDE OUT AND.

THERE IS ALSO AN IDEA WHICH I DID NOT GET INTO IN THE STORY ABOUT INCORPORATING MORE TREES, AND PLANTS AND ALL THAT, WHICH CALMS PEOPLE DOWN.

THEY FOUND THROUGH RESEARCH THAT IT DOES THAT.

THE IDEA IS THAT THE PASSENGER CAN MAKE THE DECISIONS AND THE PASSENGER BELONGS TO NO ONE.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THAT IS THE FOURTH-GENERATION AIRPORT, AND THEY FOUND THAT WHILE PEOPLE ARE IN THEY HAVE THAT FEELING, THEY SPEND MORE.

IT WORKS OUT FOR EVERYBODY.

SUE: AS I AM COMPLAINING ABOUT ALL THE STORES, I'’LL BE HAPPY ABOUT IT AND SPEND MORE MONEY.

ALL RIGHT.

YOU DID AN ARTICLE RECENTLY FOR THE AIR ADVISOR FOUNDER ANTON REV CHACKO ABOUT IT -- THE BEST DRINKS TO DRINK ON THE AIRPLANE.

I WAS HOPING IT WOULD BE FILLED WITH ALCOHOL.

WE JUST GOT A LITTLE BIT OF TIME LEFT, BUT I AM NOT SO THRILLED TO FIND OUT WHY PEOPLE DRINK TOMATO JUICE.

WHICH THEY COULD GET AT HOME, BUT DO NOT, AND ARE THRILLED TO DRINK IT ON THE AIRLINE.

WHY ARE PEOPLE DRINKING TOMATO JUICE?

SUE: -- MR. MUTHER: IS IT THAT SO FASCINATING, I WAS WONDERED WHY.

IT HAS TO DO WITH OUR TASTE BUDS CHANGING AT THE ALTITUDE BECAUSE THE PRESSURE THROUGH HER NOSE, THE IDEA IS THAT WE FEEL LIKE WE HAVE A COLD WHEN WE ARE IN THE AIR BECAUSE IT IS REPLICATING THAT AND DRYING US OUT.

THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT THE TASTE OF TOMATO JUICE THAT PEOPLE CRAVE WHEN THEY ARE IN THE AIR.

MY IS WITH VODKA, THEIRS IS NOT.

PEOPLE GET CANCER BUT FOR SOME REASON.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHY.

SUE: IT USED TO CRACK ME UP.

ALSO DISCUSSION AND SODA IS ON THE LIST.

YOU WILL BE COVERED.

WELL CHRISTOPHER, WHETHER YOU'’RE IN THE SKIES, IN THE TERMINAL, TRAVELING OR AT HOME IN YOUR BATHTUB, I APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US AND SHARING YOUR INSIGHTS AND ALSO DIRECTING EVERYONE TO YOUR GREAT STUFF OVER AT THE BOSTON GLOBE.

CHRISTOPHER MUTHER, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

MR. MUTHER: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

SUE: THAT'’S IT FOR TONIGHT, COME BACK TOMORROW FOR TALKING POLITICS, HOW MUCH ATTENTION DO ROBERT CHIN -- KENNEDY JUNIOR AND OTHER CANDIDATES TO SERVE, ADAM REILLY AT THE PANEL WILL DIG INTO THAT.

PLUS ONLINE SPORTS BETTING GETS OFF TO A VERY START -- FAST START IN MASSACHUSETTS.

THAT AND MORE AT 7:00 TOMORROW.

I'’M SUE O'’CONNELL, GOOD NIGHT.