>> ALMANAC AT THE CAPITOL IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> REAL I.D.

IS THE ISSUE GRIPPING THE STATE CAPITOL.

WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THE POLITICS, POLICIES AND HISTORY OF MINNESOTA BEING SUCH A STRONG PRIVACY STATE.

>> David: REAL I.D.

IS ABOUT MUCH MORE THAN JUST GETTING ON AN AIRPLANE, IT'S A TEXT BOOK LESSON IN STATE AND FEDERAL POLITICS.

WE'LL ILLUSTRATE THE STICKING POINTS STRAIGHT AHEAD ON "ALMANAC AT THE CAPITOL."

♪♪ "ALMANAC AT THE CAPITOL" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TV STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 28 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

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AND DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: MAKING DENTAL CARE POSSIBLE FOR MINNESOTANS IN NEED.

DELTA DENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

>> MARY: WELCOME BACK TO "ALMANAC AT THE CAPITOL."

WE'RE HERE IN OUR USUAL PERCH ABOVE THE HOUSE GALLERY.

IT'S BEEN A BUSY WEEK UP HERE AT THE CAPITOL AS THE FIRST COMMITTEE DEADLINE HITS ON FRIDAY.

WE'RE GOING TO SPEND THE MAJORITY OF OUR SHOW TONIGHT TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUE OF DATA PRIVATE A AND REAL I.D.

WE'LL VISIT WITH TWO LAWMAKERS WITH DIFFERING OPINIONS ABOUT CURRENT LEGISLATION.

I'LL TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE CHALLENGES WITH THE SENATE BILL.

BUT FIRST, "REAL I.D."

IS A COMPLICATED ISSUE SO WE ASKED DAVID GILLETTE TO GIVE US A VISUAL EXPLANATION.

>> David: THANK YOU, MARY.

AS YOU KNOW, MOST PEOPLE AT THIS POINT KNOW THE BASIC.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS COME UP WITH NEW FORMAT REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVER'S LICENSES, BUT GOING ON 1 YEARS AGO -- 1 YEARS SO FAR, MINNESOTA HAS CHOSEN NOT TO COMPLY.

WHY IS THAT?

WELL, THAT'S WHERE IT GETS COMPLICATED.

SO AS WE OFTEN DO, WE ARE GOING TO BEGIN BY ILLUSTRATING THE MANY REASONS.

>> David: REAL I.D., IT'S AN ODD BEAST.

WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT FOR MORE THAN A DECADE AND, YET, IT'S USUALLY WITH JUST ONE SENTENCE.

CAN I GET ON AN AIRPLANE OR ENTER A MILITARY BASE IS THIS THIS IS REALLY TOO BAD BECAUSE UNDERNEATH THIS IS A FASCINATING CASE STUDY IN STATE AND FEDERAL DYNAMICS.

FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE BEST WAYS TO UNDERSTAND A BILL COMING OUT OF WASHINGTON IS TO READ ITS LONG TITLE.

THIS IS THE TEXT DESCRIPTION THEY USE IN CONGRESS.

HERE'S THE REAL I.D.

TITLE AND WE'LL HIGHLIGHT THE KEY LINE.

ONE OF THE STATED GOALS IS TO PREVENT TERRORISTS FROM ABUSING THE ASYLUM LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES.

YOU SEE, THIS BILL WAS CONCEPTUALIZED IN THE LONG SHADOW OF 9/11, AND THE IDEA WHEN WAS ORIGINALLY PASSED IN 2005, WAS TO CREATE A SYSTEM THAT WOULD PREVENT SOMETHING LIKE THIS FROM EVER HAPPENING AGAIN.

TODAY, THE MAJORITY OF STATES HAVE COMPLIED WITH THE REAL I.D.

REQUIREMENTS.

BUT MINNESOTA, ALONG WITH FOUR OTHERS, WE'RE HOLDING OUT.

WHICH IN SOME WAYS IS HARD TO EXPLAIN BECAUSE MINNESOTA IS USUALLY THAT KID IN THE FRONT OF THE CLASS TRYING TO SHOW OFF FOR THE TEACHER.

SO WHY ARE WE PLAYING TROUBLE-MAKER ON REAL I.D.?

THREE REASONS.

FIRST, PRIVACY.

THE REAL I.D.

ACT REQUIRES EACH STATE TO SHARE PORTIONS OF THE INFORMATION IN ITS DRIVER'S LICENSE DATABASE WITH OTHER STATES.

AND THIS, ACCORDING TO PRIVACY EXPERTS, THROWS MORE KEROSENE ON THE WHOLE NSA-SNOWDEN-DRONE STAY OUT OF MY BUSINESS BONFIRE WHICH IS A SURPRISINGLY BIPARTISAN CONCERN.

THE SECOND ISSUE GOES BACK TO THE EVOLVING POLITICS OF IMMIGRATION AND TERRORISM.

FROM THE VERY FIRST SENTENCE, THIS BILL IS ABOUT BUILDING A TYPE OF A WALL AROUND USE CITIZENS AND TODAY WE ALL KNOW HOE DIVISIVE IT IS FOR CITIZENS TO TALK ABOUT WALL.

AND THERE IS A FAINT WHEN I HAVE OF REGIONAL EXCEPTIONALISM IN THIS DEBATE.

MINNESOTA HAS A GOOD TRACK RECORD OF HAVING SYSTEMS THAT OUT-PERFORM FEDERAL MANDATES SO, SORRY, WASHINGTON, OUR LICENSES ARE JUST FINE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WHICH BRINGS US TO THE MAIN QUESTION.

WHAT DOES HAPPEN IF A STATE IGNORES A FEDERAL MANDATE?

THE OFFICIAL TALKING POINT IS THAT WE PROBABLY WON'T BE ABLE TO GET ON AN AIRPLANE USING A DRIVER'S LICENSE.

BUT, AT LEAST SO FAR, EVERY TIME WE'VE GOTTEN CLOSE TO ONE OF THESE SO-CALLED DEADLINES, IT'S RETREATED INTO THE DISTANCE.

SO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

THE ONLY THING FOR CERTAIN IS MORE POLITICS.

IMMIGRATION WILL CONTINUE TO BE A STICKING POINT BUT IT'S ALSO WORTH WATCHING IF THE CURRENT DEADLINE OF JANUARY 26th, 2018, ACTUALLY STAYS IN PLACE.

UNTIL THEN, IF YOU DO WANT TO FUTURE-PROOF YOURSELF, GETS A PASSPORT, REALLY AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

SAFE TRAVELS, EVERYBODY.

>> Mary: NOW ON TO WHERE THINGS STAND IN THE MINNESOTA LEGISLATURE WHERE THE HOUSE PASSED THEIR VERSION A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, BUT THE SENATE THIS YEAR FOR ANYTHING CONTROVERSIAL, IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT IN THE SENATE.

>> THERE BEING 19 AYES -- 29 AYES, 38 NAYS, THE BILL IS NOT ADOPTED.

>> Mary: A SERIOUS SETBACK FOR SENATE REPUBLICANS WHO COULDN'T PASS THEIR REAL I.D.

BILL BECAUSE THEY NEEDED DEMOCRATS SINCE SOME REPUBLICANS VOTED NO.

>> HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT.

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT THE GOVERNOR WORKED WITH THE SENATE DEMOCRATS LAST WEEK, IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S WHAT CHANGED THE COURSE OF THIS.

>> Mary: THE GOVERNOR HASN'T RETURNED TO THE PUBLIC EYE AFTER HIS PROSTATE CANCER SURGE RYE SO HE COULDN'T DEFEND HIMSELF IN PERSON BUT THE D.F.L.

MINORITY LEADER TOM BAKK WAS HAPPY TO REMIND REPUBLICANS THAT THEY ONLY HAVE A ONE-VOTE MAJORITY AS THEY SUFFERED THROUGH TWO TIE VOTES ON PROCEDURAL MATTERS ON THE REAL I.D.

BILL.

>> THE PRETTY STRONG BIPARTISAN VOTE ON THIS SHOULD SEND A MESSAGE TO THE HOUSE THAT THEY CAN'T EXPECT THE SENATE TO COME TO CONFERENCE COMMITTEE IN A WEAK POSITION.

>> DEMOCRATS HAVE NO DESIRE TO PASS REAL I.D., I CANNOT STOP THEM.

>> Mary: DID YOU HAVE COMMITMENTS FROM SPECIFIC DEMOCRATS OR DID ANYBODY GO BACK ON THEIR WORD ON THEIR VOTE?

>> YES.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY I MAY WANT TO LEAVE THAT ALONE BUT -- >> I'M NOT GOING TO CALL OUT ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES, I'LL JUST SAY YES.

>> I DID TELL HIM BEFORE WE GAVELED IN TODAY THAT THERE WERE NO DEMOCRATIC VOTES FOR THE BILL.

BUT I WAS NEVER ASKED TO DELIVER ANY, EITHER.

>> Mary: COUNTING VOTES ON THIS ISSUE IS DIFFICULT BECAUSE THE STATE HAS SUCH A STRONG HISTORY OF VIGOROUSLY DEFENDING DATA PRIVACY.

AND THE SENATE DEBATE PROVED OPINIONS ARE STILL FERVENT.

>> 50 STATES ARE BEING SUBJECTED TO THE PIMPING OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

>> IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GOING A STEP TOO FAR BY CLUBBING ALL OF THE STATES INTO SUBMISSION?

>> Mary: AND THERE'S THE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION.

DEMOCRATS WANT TO KEEP A PATH OPEN FOR UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE TO GET I.D.ES, WITHOUT THAT, ONE SENATOR SAID THE BILL IS OFFENSIVE.

>> MINNESOTA IS NOT GOING TO FOLLOW THIS FEDERAL RHETORIC.

LET'S TAKE A STANCE.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT TRAVELING FROM STATE TO STATE WITH A PASSPORT OR AN I.D.

>> Mary: BUT THE BILL AUTHOR SAYS IT'S VERY MUCH ABOUT TRAVELING AND GETTING MINNESOTA IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE FEDERAL I.D.

REQUIREMENTS.

>> NAMELY, BOARDING AN AIRCRAFT, ENTERING A MILITARY BASE, OR ENTERING A SECURE FEDERAL FACILITY.

>> Mary: THE SENATE IS NOT DONE TRYING AND THE HOUSE HAS ALREADY PASSED A DIFFERENT BILL ON REAL I.D., WITH THEIR MUCH LARGER REPUBLICAN MAJORITY.

>> WE WILL PASS A BILL THIS YEAR.

IT WILL GO TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK AND THE GOVERNOR WILL SIGN IT, PERIOD.

>> Mary: JOINING ME NOW TO TALK ABOUT THE HOUSE AND SENATE BILLS ON REAL I.D., WE HAVE THE SENATE AUTHOR, HE IS SENATOR ERIC PRATT, REPUBLICAN FROM PRIOR LAKE, AND WE HAVE REPRESENTATIVE CARLOS MARIANI, A DEMOCRAT FROM St.

PAUL WHO VOTED AGAINST THE BILL.

WELL, FIRST OF ALL, SENATOR PRATT, THE BIG QUESTION, THERE WAS A PROCEDURAL MOVE ON THE SENATE TODAY, ON THE FLOOR, IT WAS BROUGHT UP, LAID OVER, THIS MEANS THIS IS GOING TO LIVE TO SEE OTHER DAY, CORRECT?

>> IT IS GOING TO LIVE TO SEE ANOTHER DAY AND I THINK AS SENATOR BAKK SAID IN THE INTRO, THIS IS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT TO SEE SOMETHING GET DONE.

I'M JUSTICE APPOINTED WE COULDN'T DO IT YESTERDAY.

>> Mary: SO WHAT HAPPENED?

>> WELL, I THINK A COUPLE OF THINGS HAPPENED, BUT, MAINLY, WHAT HAPPENED WAS, THERE WAS A PROVISION IN OUR BILL THAT WOULD HAVE LEFT THE ISSUE OF UN-- DRIVER'S LICENSES FOR UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS EXACTLY WHERE IT IS TODAY.

WE BELIEVE THAT THE ISSUE SHOULD BE SEPARATE FROM REAL I.D.

NOW, UNFORTUNATELY, THE GOVERNOR CAME OUT LAST WEEK AND MET WITH SENATE DEMOCRATS AND TOLD THEM TO HOLD TOGETHER, NOT VOTE FOR THE BILL UNLESS WE GAVE HIM SOME UNPRESENTS DEPARTMENTED AUTHORITY TO IMPLEMENT THAT POLICY BY BYPASSING THE LEGISLATURE.

>> Mary: LET'S BRING UP THAT ISSUE ON THE OTHER SIDE.

WHY DO DEMOCRATS WANT THIS?

>> WHY DO THEY WANT THE CLEAN REAL I.D.?

>> Mary: YES.

>> SAME REASON REPUBLICANS WANT IT, I SUSPECT, IS TO RESPOND TO CONSTITUENTS' DESIRE TO BE ABLE TO BOARD AIRPLANES AND TRAVEL USING MINNESOTA I.D.

AS A WAY TO DO IT.

IT'S REALLY AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER PART, THOUGH.

THAT PART IS SIMPLE, THE OTHER PART, THE IMMIGRATION AND UNDOCUMENTED I.D.

IS NOT SIMPLE, WHY DO DEMOCRATS WANT THAT?

>> I THINK WHAT DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING IS THAT DON'T BIND THE GOVERNOR'S HANDS IN TERMS OF WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO TO FULFILL HIS DUTIES TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR MINNESOTA DRIVER'S LICENSE MEETS THE PURPOSES FOR WHICH IT WAS DESIGNED.

ITS PURPOSE IS TO HAVE SAFETY ON OUR ROADS.

THE GOVERNOR FOR TIME IMMEMORIAL, EXECUTIVE BRANCH HAS HAD THE ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO STRUCTURE PUBLIC SAFETY CONSISTENT -- DRIVER'S LICENSES CONSISTENT WITH THAT PURPOSE.

MUCKING IT UP WITH UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS IS NO MORE CONTENTIOUS THAN SAYING A CERTAIN PART OF MINNESOTANS CAN'T HAVE DRIVER'S LICENSES, CERTAIN TYPE OF MINNESOTANS CAN'T HAVE DRIVER'S LICENSES.

THE ISSUE IS, A DRIVER'S LICENSE IS ISSUED IN ORDER TO KEEP OUR ROADS SAFE.

>> Mary: WHAT DO YOU SAY IN REBUTTAL TO THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK WE AGREE AND, IN FACT, THAT'S WHY WE TOOK A DIFFERENT POSITION THAN THE HOUSE.

THE HOUSE ACTUALLY PUTS IN WHAT'S IN CURRENT RULE INTO STATUTE BUT WE ARE THE ONES, AND IT'S OUR BILL THAT LEAVES THE ISSUE ALONE.

ALL WE'RE SAYING THAT IF YOU -- IF THE GOVERNOR AND THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY ARE GOING TO MAKE RULES, THEY SHOULD MAKE RULES ONLY IN ENOUGH TO IMPLEMENT THE REAL I.D.

THEY SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GO BEYOND THAT.

AND LET'S TAKE UP THE ISSUE OF UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS GETTING DRIVER'S LICENSE SEPARATELY, JUST LIKE IT WAS PRESENTED SEPARATELY IN THE SENATE IN 2013.

BECAUSE THEY ARE SEPARATE ISSUES.

AND THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PUBLIC SAFETY.

THIS IS ABOUT PASSING A REAL I.D.

AND BRINGING THE STATE INTO COMPLIANCE.

>> Mary: OKAY, REPRESENTATIVE, WHAT ABOUT THE SENATE'S APPROACH, THEN?

>> WELL, IT'S BETTER THAN THE HOUSE APPROACH, FOR SURE.

I WILL DEFINITELY CONCEDE THAT.

THE HOUSE APPROACH, HOUSE REPUBLICANS WENT WAY OUT OF THEIR WAY TO CARVE OUT A WHOLE GROUP OF FOLKS THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH PUBLIC SAFETY IN ORDER TO HOLD THE REST OF MINNESOTA HOSTAGE ON THIS ISSUE ABOUT WHETHER THEY CAN BOARD A PLANE OR NOT WITH A MINNESOTA I.D.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO ACT ON THIS ISSUE OR NOT, WE DON'T KNOW.

WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT THIS LANGUAGE IS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY, WHETHER IT'S THE SENATE LANGUAGE OR WHETHER IT'S THE HOUSE LANGUAGE, IN ORDER FOR US TO MEET THE FUNDAMENTAL NEED THAT MINNESOTA NEEDS RIGHT NOW AND THAT IS TO GET RELIEF IN THE FEDERAL MANDATE THAT OUR DRIVER'S LICENSE BE COMPLIANT WITH FEDERAL LAW IN ORDER TO BOARD AIRPLANES.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT THE GOVERNOR, BECAUSE HE'S KEY HERE.

I KNOW WE HAVE TWO REPUBLICAN CHAMBERS, CONTROLLED BY REPUBLICANS, WITH A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR BUT A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR WHO HAS SAID HE WANTED REAL I.D.

SO WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?

I KNOW HE SPOKE WITH YOUR LEADER TODAY.

WAS THERE ANY COMMUNICATION ABOUT TRYING TO GET A BILL THAT HE COULD SIGN, AND, AGAIN, THAT YOU CAN GET DEMOCRATIC SUPPORT THAT YOU NEED?

>> WELL, I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO FOLLOW UP WITH THE MAJORITY LEADER AS FAR AS HIS CONVERSATION WITH THE GOVERNOR.

BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT, AGAIN, WHAT THE SENATE DEMOCRATS ARE ASKING FOR IS NOT TO LEAVE THE ISSUE WHERE IT IS TODAY BECAUSE TODAY UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS CAN'T GET A DRIVER'S LICENSE, AND ALL WE'RE SAYING IS THAT THAT ISSUE SHOULD BE IN THE EXACT SAME POSITION AS IT IS AFTER WE PASS REAL I.D.

AS IT IS BEFORE, AND NOT GIVE THE GOVERNOR UNPRECEDENTED NEW AUTHORITY TO CREATE NEW POLICY BY BYPASSING THE LEGISLATURE.

>> Mary: WHAT DO WE THINK ABOUT PRIVACY?

THAT WAS CITED -- DAVID DID A WONDERFUL ESSAY EARLIER TALKING ABOUT MINNESOTA EXCEPTALLISM, ABOUT HOW WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN OUT FRONT ON PRIVACY.

THERE ARE BIPARTISAN PRIVACY CONCERNS.

DO YOU SHARE SOME OF THOSE?

>> I DO.

I DO.

I DO BELIEVE THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S CHANGED SINCE 2005 WHEN WE BEGAN THIS DEBATE IS THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS MOVED TO GIVE US MUCH MORE CLARITY ABOUT DATA PRIVACY, HOW IT'S COLLECTED, THE NATURE OF THE SAFETY OF INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, AND THE SYSTEM THAT THEY'RE BUILDING.

WHETHER THAT'S ENOUGH TO SATISFY CERTAIN MEMBERS HERE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, YOU KNOW, I LEAVE IT TO THEM BUT IT IS DIFFERENT THAN WHERE WE WERE BEFORE.

SO WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT -- WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS OFFERING US NOW IS TO HAVE COMPLIANCE WITH REAL I.D.

DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY WERE FORCING DOWN OUR THROATS AT THE POINT YEARS AGO.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT THE ISSUE OF PRIVACY?

I AGREE WITH REPRESENTATIVE MARIANI ON THAT, THE BILL LOOKS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN IT DID TEN YEARS AGO.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REALIZE FOR MINNESOTANS THAT WE WILL NOT BE SHARING THEIR PRIVATE I.D.

INFORMATION WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

ALL WE'RE DOING IS CHECKING OTHER STATES TO SEE IF THERE IS ANOTHER I.D.

OUT THERE.

IF THERES, IT HAS TO CLOSE.

>> Mary: WHEN IS THIS BACK ON THE FLOOR FOR YOU YET?

>> WE DON'T KNOW YET.

>> Mary: OKAY, TO BE DETERMINED.

THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN, APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪ ♪♪ >> MARY: CONCERNS ABOUT DATA PRIVACY HAVE ALSO BEEN A STICKING POINT FOR THE REAL I.D.

LEGISLATION.

AND NOBODY KNOWS MORE ABOUT DATA PRIVACY IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA THAN OUR NEXT GUEST, DON GEMBERLING RAN DATA PRIVACY FOR THE STATE FOR A LONG TIME AND HE'S NOW WITH THE GOVERNMENT COALITION ON INFORMATION.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE, HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU ABOUT THE PRIVACY ASPECT OF REAL I.D.?

>> WELL, I THINK YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO SOME OF THE GENESIS.

JUST BY WEIRD COINCIDENCE, I HAPPENED TO BE SITTING AT HOME AND WATCHED ONE OF THE HEARINGS IN CONGRESS ABOUT REAL I.D., AND WHAT I NOTICED WAS, NOBODY WAS REALLY WILLING TO TALK ABOUT THE KIND OF THE UNDERPINNING, AND THE UNDERPINNING IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION IS, DOES THIS LEAD US TO HAVING SOMETHING WHICH MOST PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY DON'T WANT TO HAVE, WHICH IS A NATIONAL I.D.

CARD.

>> Mary: IS IT A NATIONAL I.D.?

>> THE FEDS ASSURE US THEY WON'T CREATE THIS WONDERFUL DEAFBLIND BUT IN MUSIC ELSE -- THIS WONDERFUL DATABASE BUT IN MUSIC ELSE, WE HAVE A WONDERFUL PHRASE AND IT DOES FIT, HISTORICALLY IT'S ALWAYS FIT.

IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME.

OKAY?

AND, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU HAVE THESE KINDS OF CAPABILITIES, TECHNOLOGICALLY, SOMEBODY WILL FIND ALL KINDS OF WONDERFUL WAYS THEY CAN BE USED, ALWAYS FOR SOME GREAT BENEFIT, LIKE SECURITY AND THAT KIND OF THING, AND SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL THIS, THE PRIVACY WILL BE LOST, SO I THINK THERE'S KIND OF A -- AT LEAST TWO TOPICS THAT WE NEED TO SPEND MORE TIME TALKING ABOUT, WHICH WE HAVEN'T SPENT ENOUGH TIME TALKING ABOUT.

>> Mary: OKAY.

>> WHICH IS DO WE REALLY WANT TO HAVE A NATIONAL I.D.?

AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO HAVE A NATIONAL I.D.?

NOW, I EVEN BROUGHT A PROP.

>> Mary: WE LOVE PROPS IN TELEVISION.

WE WON'T ZOOM IN TO TIGHTLY SO PEOPLE DON'T SHOW UP AT YOUR HOUSE TONIGHT, IT'S YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE.

>> BUT REMEMBER -- >> Mary: THIS IS PUBLIC INFORMATION.

>> THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CAN GET ACCESS TO THIS THANKS TO ANOTHER STUPID FEDERAL LAW WHICH THEY CALL THE PRIVACY PROTECTION ACT.

WE WON'T GO THERE UNLESS -- HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART OF THE PROP.

THIS IS THE BACK OF MY DRIVER'S LICENSE, IT'S THE BACK OF EVERYBODY'S DRIVER'S LICENSE, IT'S GOT A MAG STRIP.

NOW, MARY, WOULD YOU READ ME WHAT'S ON THE MAG STRIP?

>> Mary: WELL, YOU CAN'T.

>> YOU CAN'T, EXACTLY.

>> Mary: RIGHT.

>> HOWEVER, I HAVE TO CARRY THIS AROUND, I HAVE TO PROVIDE IT TO PEOPLE.

ONE OF MY -- I HAVE A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THAT A GUY WROTE LIKE 15 YEARS AGO COMPLAINING ABOUT A LIQUOR STORE WHO WOULD NOT SELL HIM LIQUOR UNLESS HE PRESENTED AN I.D.

I HAD THIS EXACT SAME EXPERIENCE AT A LIQUOR STORE IN FERGUS FALLS A COUPLE YEARS AGO.

LOOK AT ME, I THINK I'M OBVIOUSLY OVER 21.

[Laughter] BUT -- >> Mary: SO WHY IS THIS BETTER THAN A FEDERAL I.D., OR REAL I.D.?

>> IT'S NOT SO MUCH THAT IT'S BETTER, IT'S JUST PART OF WHAT WE'VE DONE WITH THE TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCES, IS WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT WAYS TO KIND OF COMPENSATE THEM, COMPETENT FOR THEM.

FOR EXAMPLE -- COMPENSATE FOR THEM.

FOR EXAMPLE, I THINK THE STATE OF MINNESOTA OUGHT TO OPERATES AN INDEPENDENT SERVICE IN WHICH I CAN GO TO SOMEBODY AND HAND THEM THIS THING AND THEY WILL READ WHAT'S ON THE BACK AND TELL ME WHAT'S REALLY THERE, OKAY?

>> Mary: YEAH.

>> AND AS TIME EVOLVES, THAT WAY I KNOW WHAT I'M HANDING TO SOMEBODY.

>> Mary: SO WHAT CAN THE STATE DO?

WHAT REALISTICALLY IF MINNESOTANS CAN'T TO GO MILITARY BASES, CAN'T GET ON AIRPLANES, WHAT CAN THEY DO AND STILL PROTECT OUR IDENTITY?

>> I THINK WE NEED TO FOCUS MORE ON THE KINDS OF THINGS WE CAN DO WITHIN THE STATE, THE KIND OF THINGS WE CAN DO WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

YOU KNOW, PART -- >> Mary: DO EITHER OF THE BILLS DO THAT YET, THEN?

>> NOT THAT I'VE SEEN, NO.

>> Mary: OKAY.

>> PART OF IT IS,UP, THE FEDS PUT DOWN THE MANDATE AND WE ALL KIND OF GO, OH, THE FEDS SAY WE HAVE TO DO THIS BUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN WE DO INSIDE OF THE MANDATE?

LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE WITH THE DRIVER'S PRIVACY PROTECTION ACT.

ONE OF THE GROUPS THAT WAS NOT ENTITLED TO GET ACCESS TO MOTOR VEHICLE AND DRIVER'S LICENSE INFORMATION WAS THE MEDIA, OKAY?

WHEN THEY SHUT DOWN THOSE FILES, WELL, SOME VERY CREATIVE PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA COMMUNITY AND IN THE LEGISLATURE FOUND A WAY AROUND THAT.

SO I THINK THERE ARE THINGS WE COULD DO BUT WE'RE NEVER GOING TO GET THERE UNLESS WE TALK ABOUT THEM.

>> Mary: FINALLY, BEFORE WE'RE OUT OF TIME, GIVE US THE CONTEXT HISTORICALLY WHY MINNESOTA IS SUCH A STRONG PRIVACY STATE AND WHY WE'RE HOLDING OUT ON REAL I.D.

>> WE HAD SOME PEOPLE BACK IN -- WHAT I THINK OF AS THE OLD DAYS.

>> Mary: PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

>> I'M NOT THE FATHER OF [INDISCERNIBLE] ACTUALLY, A GUY I WORKED FOR WAS.

WE HAD SOME PEOPLE WHO WERE BOTH CIVIL LIBERTARIANS AND GOVERNMENT FOLKS WHICH IS, THESE DAYS, KIND OF IN SOME WAYS A WEIRD COMBINATION, AND THEY SAID WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THIS STUFF AND BECAUSE OF THAT, WE GOTTA HEAD OF THE GAME, AND WE WERE THE FIRST STATE TO HAVE A, QUOTE, FAIR INFORMATION PRACTICES ACT.

>> Mary: WE HOPE WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT MORE.

THANKS FOR YOUR TIME, DON.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> Mary: QUITE FRANKLY, ONE OF THE BEST IMPROVEMENTS TO THE NEWLY RESTORED STATE CAPITOL ARE THE QUALITY AND QUANTITY OF BATHROOMS.

BEFORE THE RESTORATION, THE STATE CAPITOL WAS SORELY LACKING FOR BATHROOMS, ESPECIALLY WOMEN'S BATHROOMS, BUT NOW THERE ARE BATHROOMS ON EVERY SIMM FLOOR.

FROM THE BASEMENT TO THE GROUND FLOOR, TO THE FIRST FLOOR, TO THE SECOND FLOOR, ALL THE WAY UP TO THE THIRD FLOOR, THERE ARE MEN'S AND WOMEN'S BATHROOMS ON EVERY SINGLE FLOOR.

WE COUNT AT LEAST A DOZEN NOW IN THE STATE CAPITOL.

THE THING I RUN INTO PEOPLE THE MOST AND THEY ASK ABOUT ARE BATHROOMS SO WE'RE DOING A LITTLE PUBLIC SERVICE THERE.

>> David: WELL DONE, MARY LaHAMMER.

WELL DONE.

>> Mary: WHAT DO YOU HAVE, DAVID?

>> David: I HAVE A THEORY FOR YOU, IN OUR CONSTANTS QUEST FOR THEMSELVES, I HAVE A THEORY, THAT THE 2017 LEGISLATIVE SESSION IS BEING UNUSUALLY GUIDED BY HISTORY AND I HAVE THREE EXAMPLES.

GOVERNOR DAYTON WAS RECENTLY ASKED ABOUT THIS SORT OF RECURRING THEORY THAT HE MIGHT CONSIDER LEAVING OFFICE BEFORE THE END OF HIS TERM TO ELEVATE HIS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR TO GOVERNORSHIP, MAKING HER THE FIRST FEMALE GOVERNOR.

HE SAID HE REMEMBERED VERY VIVIDLY WHEN GOVERNOR WENDY ANDERSON DID SOMETHING SIMILAR, PROMOTED HIMSELF TO THE U.S.

SENATE, BUMPED UP PERPICH.

DAYTON'S MENTOR, DID NOT WORK WELL, THE MINNESOTA MASSACRE.

HE HAD GUIDED BY HIS FREE IN NOT DOING THAT.

>> Mary: LET ME JUMP IN BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE WONDERING ABOUT THE GOVERNOR AND HIS STATUS.

THE GOVERNOR IS WORKING THIS WEEK, HE'S NOT BEEN SEEN IN PUBLIC YET, STILL AT THE RESIDENCE BUT APPARENTLY VERY ACTIVE ON EMAIL, HIS STAFF SAYS AND HE HAD PHONE CALLS TODAY WITH LEGISLATIVE LEADERS AND WE ARE EXPECTING PERHAPS A MONDAY PRESS CONFERENCE, BUT HE IS STILL RECOVERING IN SURGERY.

>> David: GLAD TO HEAR THAT.

EXAMPLE NUMBER TWO.

SENATE MAJORITY LEADER PAUL GAZELKA AS AN INDIVIDUAL, VERY GALLON VIRGINIA NICED BY SOCIAL ISSUES BUT HE REMEMBERS VIVIDLY THE LAST TIME THE REPUBLICANS CONTROLLED THE SENATE AND THE REASONS HE FELT THEY MIGHT HAVE OVERREACHED ON SENATE ISSUES SOCIAL ISSUES, BACKED UP BY HISTORY.

>> Mary: GAZELKA HAD HIS FIRST BIG TEST, THE FIRST TIE VOTE AND THE FIRST MAJOR BILL GO DOWN SO NOW, HE HAD BEEN PRAISED AS THE PERSON TO WATCH AND,UP, GUIDING THE SENATE BRILLIANT HEAT LEE BUT HE GOT TOUGH THIS WEEK AND HE KNEW IT WOULD, AND WHEN I ASKED HIM, ARE YOU SURPRISED BY A TIE VOTE, HE SAID NO, I'M JUST SURPRISED IT'S THE FIRST TIME IT'S HAPPENED.

>> David: INTERESTING.

THE THIRD AND FINAL EXAMPLE IN THIS CHAMBER, SPEAKER DAUDT HAS LONG SAID HE FEELS THE PUBLIC IS UPSET WITH THE WAY HISTORICALLY THINGS GET SHOVED TO THE END OF SESSION NEGOTIATED BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND NOW THIS YEAR, YOU SEE THE COMMITTEE DEADLINES, WHICH ARE IMPORTANT MILESTONE TO MOVE BILLS ALONG MOVED UP ALMOST AN ENTIRE MONTH IN AN EFFORT TO MAYBE GIVE SOME OF THESE BILLS A SECONDS CHANCE IF THEY DON'T WORK.

THREE EXAMPLES OF HISTORY GUIDING THE SESSION.

>> Mary: AND IN COMMITTEE, COMMITTEES -- I CAN'T REMEMBER, I'VE BEEN UP HERE REPORTING FOR PUBLIC TELEVISION FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS AROUND THIS PLACE FOR 30, 40 YEARS AND I CAN'T REMEMBER A WEEK THIS JAM-PACKED WITH BILLS BECAUSE OF THIS EARLY COMMITTEE DEADLINE FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER IN MY CAREER, I HAD A LAWMAKER SAY, I CAN'T DO AN INTERVIEW WITH YOU BECAUSE I AM TOO BUSY.

SO WE HAVE THE FIRST DEADLINE THIS WEEK TO GET OUT OF YOUR COMMITTEE OF ORIGIN.

NEXT WEEK YOU HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE OTHER COMMITTEE AND THEN MARCH 31st, FINANCE BILLS TO HAVE GET OUT OF COMMITTEE SO BUSY, BUSY.

>> David: WE HAVE TO STAY BUSY BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO WRAP UP THE SHOW.

>> Mary: THANK YOU, DAVID.

WE'RE ALMOST OUT OF TIME.

WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEDNESDAY NIGHT.

YOU CAN STREAM US LIVE, FOLLOW US ALL WEEK ON FACEBOOK, LOOK FOR LEGISLATIVE UPDATES AND MORE FROM OUR TEAM ON TWITTER.

THAT'S ALL AT TPT.ORG/AATC.

AND MAKE SURE TO TUNE IN TO "ALMANAC" FRIDAY NIGHT.

CATHY AND ERIC WILL TALK WITH PAUL DOUGLAS ABOUT THIS WEEK'S STORMY WEATHER, FROM 60 DEGREES TO SNOW WITHIN A DAY, IT'S BEEN UNREAL.

THE MINNESOTA OPERA WILL GIVE US A SNEAK PEEK AT A WORLD PREMIERE, AND I'LL TAKE A DEEPER A LOOK AT DATA PRIVACY IN MINNESOTA.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

GOOD NIGHT.

Captioned by: Paradigm Reporting & Captioning www.paradigmreporting.com ALMANAC: AT THE CAPITOL IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS ALMANAC AT THE CAPITOL IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TV STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: POWERING WHAT'S POSSIBLE.

CLEARWAY MINNESOTA: IF KIDS DON'T START, THE HARM FROM SMOKING STOPS.

MORE AT STOPTHESTARTMN.COM.

GREAT WATERS FINANCIAL: CREATING COMPREHENSIVE, CUSTOMIZED FINANCIAL STRATEGIES FOR PEOPLE IN AND NEAR RETIREMENT.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: MAKING DENTAL CARE POSSIBLE FOR MINNESOTANS IN NEED.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

MANITOBA HYDRO: PROUD TO PROVIDE RENEWABLE ENERGY TO MINNESOTA FOR MORE THAN 40 YEARS.

ONLINE AT MANITOBAHYDROPOWER.COM.

AND THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A LEADER IN PROTECTING AND RESTORING NATURAL RESOURCES FOR GENERATIONS TO COME.

"ALMANAC: AT THE CAPITOL" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.