♪♪♪ Almost all of Iowa is finally out of drought conditions.

But now there is flooding and bird flu is still challenging the ag industry.

We'll talk about all of that and more with Iowa Secretary of Agriculture Mike Naig on this edition of Iowa Press.

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♪♪♪ For decades, Iowa Press has brought you political leaders and newsmakers from across Iowa and beyond.

Celebrating 50 years of broadcast excellence on statewide Iowa PBS, this is the Friday, July 12th edition of Iowa Press.

Here is Kay Henderson.

♪♪♪ Henderson: In March of 2018, the Governor appointed our guest to be Secretary of Agriculture, succeeding the late Bill Northey.

In November of 2018, he won a full term.

In 2022, he won another full term.

And he is back at the Iowa Press table to talk about agriculture.

Secretary of Agriculture Mike Naig, thanks for joining us.

Naig: Great to see you, always good to be here.

Henderson: Joining our conversation are Katarina Sostaric of Iowa Public Radio and Erin Murphy of the Gazette in Cedar Rapids.

Murphy: Secretary Naig, Iowans in many communities are dealing with the fallout from natural disasters, some flooding and tornados.

A lot of us have seen the images and devastation in communities, especially from the flooding in town.

How about the agricultural community?

How much has this impacted farmers?

Do we have an acres number that has been hurt by these storms?

Naig: Well, first of all, just absolutely devastating damage to communities.

Of course, Minden, Greenfield, Spencer, Hayward and Rock Valley to name a few, many others.

And so, this is absolutely something that we have been wanting to talk about and I have been visiting farms is yes, absolutely there is damage to farms, both in terms of direct damage -- you think of the end of April, Shelby County, a track of storms that came through, tornados that went through and just devastated farms, everything gone, people coming up out of basements and nothing is there.

You go to the Greenfield, Adair, Adams County stretch through there and again, farms that are just completely devastated.

And then across northwest Iowa, of course yes there is direct impact from flood damage, moving water that affected farm places and buildings and that sort of thing and washed out crops, but then there is this bigger issue in addition to that of just the excess moisture that we've seen throughout the spring.

And so, you've got kind of widespread too much precipitation affecting crops.

So, to the original question of what kind of crop damage, hard to say at this point.

We just don't know.

We can't really know the total extent of that until you really get out to fall and get a combine through the field.

But through northwest Iowa, because of the excess moisture, we will absolutely see and are seeing crop damage.

But farm places have been affected.

You lose your home, you lose your equipment, you lose your outbuildings, it dollars up very quickly.

Murphy: And to that, the state and federal governments have been working on response and recovery efforts.

Governor Reynolds just earlier this week announced a new program to help farmers who take out loans to repair damage to their equipment or farms.

The USDA has been involved as well.

How much of that is in place?

And how much more -- are you asking for more help beyond what has been put in place already?

Naig: You know, some of this takes time to develop that full picture of damage.

And so, you just keep adding pieces that you understand.

So, what happens immediately is you've got a presidential disaster declared in communities where you've got FEMA that comes in and small business association loans and those types of administration loans.

What we did find -- the Governor and I both toured farms out in Shelby County and compared notes a day or two later and had realized and come up with the same problem, which was that farmers don't qualify for those small business loans.

You might be waiting for a settlement on your insurance or flat out there's just not assistance for the types of things that farmers need to do to get back on track or to get ready for fall.

And so, I really appreciate, she brought forward here this week the disaster recovery farm interest program that really will offset, it's up to $50,000 worth of interest for farmers, farm businesses, farms that have to borrow money in direct response to disaster.

So, it was a gap that was identified and her team with the Finance Authority are addressing it.

There's a whole host of other programs USDA has that help with farm damage.

And of course, crop insurance is one of the most important risk management tools that we have in agriculture.

It comes out of the Farm Bill.

Most farmers in the state of Iowa have some experience using crop insurance, unfortunately.

But it's just driving home how important that is.

Insurance never makes you whole.

But it can allow you a fighting chance to do it again next year.

And so, it's a whole host of those things.

But I really appreciate that Governor Reynolds brought that piece forward that really was a gap that folks -- if you came out of your basement and everything is gone, everything helps to try to get you back on track.

Sostaric: Another issue farmers are dealing with is bird flu.

It is being found in dairy herds in the state.

Iowa has a unique testing approach compared to other states.

Can you explain why you think that is necessary here in Iowa?

Naig: Yeah, unfortunately we're third year of dealing with high path avian influenza.

So, you go back to the spring of '22, '22 spring, fall '22, spring '23, fall '23 we had high path but it was specifically related to poultry sites.

And unfortunately, we have a lot of experience with that in the state of Iowa both in terms of the industry and our team.

So, you go and you look at that situation and you say, we know what to do, it's unpleasant, it's hard work, it's devastating to the producer, but we know what to do.

Earlier this year, or late last year, or earlier this calendar year, somewhere in that vicinity you had a spillover event that occurred from poultry into dairy, same virus that spilled over and is now moving also through the dairy herds throughout the country.

And sure enough, it came to Iowa and we started to detect, we had poultry sites and dairy sites that were positive with the same virus.

And what we got to looking at was we need to understand this in a more holistic approach.

So, if we were just a dairy state, we could handle it like just a dairy issue.

But we're not, we're the number one egg producing state, we're a significant turkey producing state, swine, beef, dairy, all together in close proximity.

We needed to get a better view of that.

So, we did take the approach, which no other state had done, was to look around those positive poultry sites and test those dairies and say what's going on?

But if we're going to experience the pain and know that we have those positive sites, well then we better understand what is happening.

And so, I ordered in an epidemiological strike team from USDA, appreciate that they sent that team.

And so, you went farm by farm looking at and trying to understand the connections.

Where's the feed truck going?

Who is on and off of that farm?

Connecting the dots, we're doing research on the farm that no other state is doing as well really trying to understand how high path moves through a herd and what are the possible ways that it's moving off of the farm or onto the farm?

So, that is what that testing approach has allowed us to do is look at the wildlife in the area, do the epi work and also do research on the farm.

I think what we're going to get when we get to the end of this, maybe in weeks or even months, is that we're going to actually have specific strategies then that farmers can use to better protect their operations.

But if you're not testing, you don't know where it is, you can't do that kind of work.

So, I think it just underscores that we're going to treat these things like all ag issues and all livestock issues and not treat it specifically for one species.

That's our Iowa approach.

I believe it will pay dividends.

We'll see here as the results come in.

Sostaric: And you mentioned the USDA strike teams.

Are they still in Iowa?

Or is there any more assistance that you're requesting from the USDA?

Naig: Yeah, at this point the epi teams that were on the ground here, knock on wood, we haven't seen some new cases in the past couple of weeks, they have been able to go back home to where they are in other states.

They have day jobs and we appreciate that they literally take time, they set things aside, they come here, they really work intensely at it.

And now they're back doing the work, putting the information together so that we will have a report and that report will become public.

I haven't seen the results of that yet.

But we will start to see, what are the connections?

How did things move?

And again, this is all about trying to create strategies.

So, epi team came in, they're back out now, we've got resources with the USDA in the state on a normal basis and we're managing through it that way now.

If we see a surge, I will once again ask for help.

Henderson: Iowa State University researchers at the College of Veterinary Medicine have some research that has just come out about bird flu identifying that in the mammary glands of a cow that is where it is attaching the virus.

And maybe thinking that the virus is being spread by the milking equipment.

Naig: This is the type of thing that we're learning.

So, what we know about this is that it clearly, the virus clearly has an affinity for the utter, for the mammary glands.

It is expressed there.

You can find it -- the testing actually that was developed for this at Iowa State Diagnostic Lab is that you are taking samples from the raw milk that is coming off of those dairies and you can find the virus there.

I should note that pasteurization deactivates the virus and that has been proven as well.

But that is how you can find it.

So, it clearly, the virus, if you will, settles into the udder and that is how it is expressed.

The dairy cow itself may experience symptoms like you and I would for the flu, but they get over it, but it may harbor longer in that udder and that is, again, how you are trying to track those things over time.

We're doing some longitudinal studies on farms where you're literally testing every animal on a farm and you're going to track that over time so you can try to figure out how does this move and how does it exit?

Because it will, it will eventually exit that herd and you want to be able to track those things and have an expectation of how long does that last.

Henderson: One other quick question about bird flu, and we've got a lot of other subjects.

It has been found in northwest Iowa.

A lot of dairy farms in northeast Iowa.

Why not?

Naig: Well, that is where we have confirmed cases.

And I think this is maybe something that we are finding it because we're looking for it.

And I would say this is a broader issue than where you have confirmed cases.

Now, it does appear that initially there was animal movements from Texas, Kansas, places like that, that originally brought these things to other states.

Where it went from there may or may not be connected to animal movements.

That's where you start to have these lateral things happening, other vectors.

So, I can't sit here -- I will tell you that we did, the testing that we did in northwest Iowa around those poultry sites, roughly only a third of the testing that we did of those roughly 30 dairies came back positive.

That means two-thirds were not.

This is not everywhere, not every herd is being affected by it.

So, there's every reason to believe that it might not be in northeast Iowa, or maybe it is and folks just don't necessarily know what they're looking at.

So, this is the point of raising the awareness, doing the testing, looking, finding it and then understanding it.

So, right now it is really a northwest Iowa phenomenon.

Murphy: And real quick before we move on, there have been some cases, very few but cases confirmed in other states of it passing to humans.

That has not happened in Iowa, correct?

Naig: Not happened in Iowa and it's not because we haven't looked.

Part of the normal protocol here is that when you've got high path on a farm that we work together with Health and Human Services and public health and county public health and emergency management, all of those pieces, so that you make, they make an outreach to the farm and say, is anybody experiencing symptoms?

If they are, if you're concerned, this is not mandatory by any means, but if you want to get tested, they track those things.

So, we have tested some workers in the state of Iowa.

There have been no positives.

But you've seen just a few, just a handful.

And they've been dairy workers and typically it has been conjunctivitis.

If you're working around milk or around cattle, you can imagine how you may end up coming into contact with some milk.

And so that appears to be how that has been playing out.

So, as of right now, oh by the way, there's no evidence of human-to-human spread, which of course is very good news for all of us.

And why it is important that we manage these things as animal health issues, try to deal with them on the farm where they don't become human health or food safety issues.

Murphy: All right, moving on, so many other topics to get to here today.

There have been layoffs in the agriculture industry in myriad fields, John Deere, Tyson, Smithfield, all in Iowa.

We're dealing with a variety of equipment manufacturers and food processors there.

What is going on in the industry that is causing these things?

Naig: Well, you definitely have a softening in the ag economy.

A check of the commodity prices this morning, the Chicago Board of Trade has corn bouncing just above or just below $4, you've got soybeans bouncing around $11.

Again, that is on the board, not in the cash.

And even coming into this year, the signals have been sent.

USDA projected at the beginning of the calendar year that on-farm income would be down 25%.

We've got interest rates that have doubled and tripled for operations in the last couple of years.

The cost of everything is up.

So, what you're seeing is a softening in the ag economy.

When farmers are not profitable, and at those corn and soybean prices you're not profitable, you're under water.

The cost of production exceeds the value of the crop.

It's not sustainable.

And what it will cause you to do is delay decisions, that tractor, that combine, that expansion, that rebuilding of something, you're going to delay that decision and just try to get a little, maybe get a little clearer wind before you decide what to do.

That creates softness in the industries that support and supply farmers, which creates softness in their suppliers, and the next thing you know you're onto a situation where Deere is reporting softness in every category of what they look at.

And so, some of this is just a natural outcome economically in terms of what is happening at the core, which is commodity prices and the cost of inputs and the cost of workforce.

So, I think it's unfortunately a sign of the times.

And here's the only thing I can tell you, and I'm no economist, but the only thing I can tell you is that the ag economy is cyclical.

The key is how big is the cycle?

And how quickly do you reverse course and get back above water?

But that is what is playing out largely as I see it.

Henderson: But on the pork side, people are eating less pork.

Naig: Different story, different drivers.

You know, you can go back and you can say shifting consumer demands, you've got increased inflation affecting families at the grocery store and that is changing some demand equations.

You've got decent international exports, but not just on fire.

All of that is contributing to -- again, you're driving up the cost of labor, older facilities.

Some of these things that are happening in Iowa are, again, natural outcomes of some of these pressures that we've seen.

The good news at least I think on the Perry pork plant side of things is that you're not talking about a pullback in total processing, it's just that it's going to shift to some other places, try to optimize other facilities in the state of Iowa.

So, again, I don't know how else to say it, softness all the way kind of across the board here in the ag space.

Sostaric: This year the legislature considered research on meat alternatives.

They ended up not doing that.

But considering that people are eating less pork, shouldn't Iowa be pursuing that kind of research because it could potentially benefit soybean producers in making meat alternatives?

Naig: Well, I think as was the case, it was talked about but not pursued.

I'm in the category of look, I believe that consumers should have choice and if somebody wants to consume a meat alternative or a dairy alternative, so be it.

But here's what I don't want is for somebody to be confused about what they're having.

If it's dairy from a lactating dairy animal, let's call it milk, let's call it dairy.

If it's something else, people should know that.

I don't care if they choose it or not, well I do actually, I would love for them to be consuming the things that we produce here.

But point being, as long as they know what is on the label is accurate and real, ingredients are listed and those types of things, I can be okay with that.

So, I guess to the other piece is, should we pursue these options?

Should companies invest in these things?

I think they are doing that.

What I'm concerned about and what I want to see is around this issue of labeling.

Is there truth in labeling?

Do folks know what they're getting on the shelf or on the menu?

And let's be really clear about that and real about that.

But yes, there could be some opportunities that exist for using other plant-based proteins.

But we just want to make sure it's a fair game when it comes to labeling.

Sostaric: And the legislature did pass a meat labeling requirement for meat -- do you really think that's really needed?

Do people really not know that they're buying a burger made of beans or something like that in the store?

Naig: Well, let's make sure they do.

I don't think there's any downside to knowing, to making sure that happens.

Truth in labeling, accuracy in labeling and here's the other thing, there is a fairness issue.

Farmers through their checkoff organizations have invested in brand awareness and promotion of things like beef, pork, turkey, egg, milk.

Why are we allowing that investment that has been made by our producers, our farm community, to then be used by alternatives?

Let them develop their marketplace if they want.

Henderson: The last time you were on the show, for the benefit of our dedicated viewers, we asked you about the pipeline, the carbon capture pipeline and you said you could see both sides and in regards to eminent domain you had some thoughts on that.

Now that the Iowa Utilities Commission has approved a tentative construction permit based on if they get permission to build in other states -- Naig: In the Dakotas, right.

Henderson: -- are you satisfied with the result?

Naig: I still look at this as two issues.

And believe me, I hear about it.

I hear about this issue.

That doesn't surprise you.

Both for and against.

I've talked to landowners who have agreed to the terms.

I've talked to landowners who haven't and won't or they're going to fight it.

So, I look at this in two ways.

One is what is the value or what is the potential value of the project itself?

In my chair I have to think about things like, what are we doing to increase the demand for the things we produce or the value of the things we produce?

In this case, again I say this all the time in groups, whether you like it or not there is a potential upside here for ethanol.

There could be a demand.

There could be an expansion signal even sent to the ethanol industry as we look at now using ethanol to make sustainable aviation fuel.

If you're going to make sustainable aviation fuel, you've got to lower the carbon intensity of your ethanol.

There are many ways to do that but we should be looking at all of the options there.

So, is there potential value in this?

Yes.

Now, the issue of eminent domain.

Nobody likes eminent domain, nobody.

But Iowa law allows for it and Iowa law allows for it when it is justified.

How is it determined whether it is justified?

Utilities Board.

I would commend the report, the order, the permit that the Iowa Utilities Board issued.

It is lengthy.

I'm not all the way through it, in fact.

But it gives the sense of the depth, the arguments made both ways, concessions, all of those things.

I think it's a lengthy process that is laid out.

Look, bottom line is Iowa law allows it.

Should we look at that law?

I think we can.

It should be -- eminent domain use should be rare, it should be used when there's significant voluntary agreements in place.

Something I care deeply about is restoration of land after a project.

Henderson: So, did you like some of the bills that emerged in the House that never got a hearing in the Senate?

Naig: I'm okay with looking at the process, both the process and if the legislature wants to look at how to better define some of these terms or put some guard rails around it, the things that I think about, I would be careful about going in and saying specifically this kind of project should or should not be allowed.

Again, look at those broader principles.

Does it have an overwhelming impact?

Does it impact many?

Is it rare?

Is it used in cases where there is voluntary agreement?

What is the right number for that?

You've seen everything from two-thirds to 90%.

I think you've got a range there that the state could look at.

And restoration, putting some teeth, maybe some additional teeth in the restoration piece to ensure that land is useful afterwards.

I think those are things that are very logical to look at after we've gone through a process now and there will be litigation, we assume, on this and there may yet be things to learn and apply through that process.

Murphy: The U.S. Supreme Court recently delivered a ruling that in shorthand here made it easier to challenge and remove federal regulations.

In this new legal landscape now is there anything that you've looked at as far as federal agricultural regulations that you're going to talk to the delegation about and ask them to give a look at?

Naig: This is significant.

There's an understatement.

This Chevron doctrine and deference paid to the agencies on one level what you say as well.

So, what that sort of says is here Congress has been outsourcing a lot of the detail and some of the specifics to agencies and then agencies are deferred to in the courts.

And that probably needs to be corrected, that needs to be corrected.

Congress should do their job.

Congress should do their job and give specific direction and then perform oversight over agencies.

So, short answer is we're looking at this now, this really is changing.

The Attorney General and I just talked about this here just this past week about what this means, some of the potential implications and we're looking at it.

Look, in the conservation space we're having some real challenges with getting some of our projects through permitting with the Army Corps of Engineers.

You can be sure that we're going to be looking at how waters of the U.S. is defined and the Clean Water Act as it relates to trying to go out and do conservation work.

And if this is -- Murphy: I'm sorry, what kind of projects are you talking about?

Naig: Water quality wetlands typically, nitrate reducing wetlands and whether or not we need to do stream mitigation or not.

It adds to the cost of these projects.

Of course, we would argue we're doing the overall environmental and ecological impact, the positive impact to that stream segment overwhelms the need to go mitigate.

But that's just one example where you'd say, we sure would like to have a clear shot at trying to make a better case for that.

So, I think there will be absolutely opportunities now for folks to look at this with a new set of eyes.

Sostaric: We're running a bit short on time now but I want to ask about water quality to follow up on that.

You've promoted the Nutrient Reduction Strategy, voluntary measures for farmers to take for water quality.

And in the past ten years of the Nutrient Reduction Strategy there really hasn't been a big change in the data in terms of reducing nutrients.

At what point does the state need to change its approach?

Naig: Yeah, well here's the way we've always talked about this, which is I'll point to this.

We've been doing soil conservation work in this state, state invested resources for 50 years, over 50 years.

And we are nearly, we've nearly achieved our phosphorous reduction goals as it relates to the Nutrient Reduction Strategy.

What does that tell you?

It's a long-term game.

You take focused resources, people, partners, awareness, get it done.

For much of our history we're tried to get rid of water as fast as we possibly can off the landscape.

It has only been since the Nutrient Reduction Strategy started maybe 15 years ago and into the implementation 11 years ago that we've started to say yes, get rid of the water from a productivity standpoint.

We've got to slow it down to denitrify it.

And also look at strategies to keep it on the farm to begin with.

This is a longer-term issue.

There is the issue of is it showing, are you able to detect this in the monitoring and water?

I'll go back and point to, let's just take the five years that we're sort of in right now, four years of drought, historic drought followed by historic wetness.

The monitoring information will tell you a lot about the weather that you just experienced.

We measure impact on people, inputs, the land change, account practices, all of that leads to change in the water.

So, I would commend people, the Nutrient Reduction Strategy measurements website, Iowa State University goes through in detail measuring in each of those other categories that are ultimately leading to monitoring change in that water quality in the monitoring data.

Henderson: 10 seconds left.

Naig: Oh my.

Henderson: Are you considering running for Governor?

Yes or no?

Naig: I love the team that I serve with.

I have every intention of running for re-election as Iowa's Secretary of Agriculture.

Henderson: Thank you for your time today, appreciate it.

Naig: You bet.

Henderson: You can watch every episode of Iowa Press at iowapbs.org.

For everyone here at Iowa PBS, thanks for watching today.

♪♪♪ Funding for Iowa Press was provided by Friends, the Iowa PBS Foundation.

The Associated General Contractors of Iowa, the public's partner in building Iowa's highway, bridge and municipal utility infrastructure.

Elite Casino Resorts is a family-run business rooted in Iowa.

We believe our employees are part of our family and we strive to improve their quality of life and the quality of lives within the communities we serve.

♪♪♪ Across Iowa, hundreds of neighborhood banks strive to serve their communities, provide jobs and help local businesses.

Iowa Banks are proud to back the life you build.

Learn more at iowabankers.com.